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Some people predict that the instant we have complete VR, all human progress will cease. We will have no reason to seek new experiences in the real world becau

by bloaf 13y ago

Some people predict that the instant we have complete VR, all human progress will cease. We will have no reason to seek new experiences in the real world because we can simulate any experience we want in the virtual world.

stormbrew 13y ago
And this means progress stops ... because...? I could see making this argument for true AI, maybe, but even then I doubt it's true. When in human history has allowing people's minds greater degrees of freedom resulted in progress slowing down, let alone stopping? This just sounds like "Kids these days..." kind of nonsense to me.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
That's bunk. Most people don't care about fake experiences.
- wildpeaks 13y ago
  Only because they're not good enough at the moment: once it's indistinguishable from reality, they'll choose the path of lesser resistance that gives them the most control.
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    Let me put it this way: imagine the derision, scorn, and hatred heaped upon furries, /a/utists, Tumblrites, bronies, MMORPG addicts, and all other sorts of low-status netizens who are already perceived as overly escapist, and who thus get labeled "faggots" and beaten up for their lunch money. Now multiply it by a rather large quantity. In fact, you might have to outright square it. That is how people are going to act towards those who deliberately cut themselves off from real life to spend time on VRs. There is going to be bullying among children and harassment among adults (but I repeat myself). There will be lawsuits and alarmist attempts at legislation. Now, I don't really think either side of this coming dichotomy is healthy or correct. I think that escapism is fun, but it's not real life, but it is a strict subset of valid ways to spend real-life time. However, if your prediction bears out, that dichotomy is going to form.
- bjt 13y ago
  Most people spend quite a lot of time having "fake experiences". TV, movies, and video games are wildly popular, and consume quite a lot of people's time. As they become more immersive through VR, and provide an even better escape from reality, it's natural to expect them to become more popular, not less.
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    TV, movie, and video game story-lines also near-uniformly consist of situations that would be unpleasant or even traumatizing to actually live through. Everyone thinks it's a great story when the heroine sets out to avenge her father's murder and ends up saving the world. Most people do not actually want to have their father murdered and then deal with an existentially-threatening war for the survival of the human species. Likewise, everyone enjoys a good round of the Hero's Journey, but most people don't really want Spiderman-level responsibility (and yet find superheroism largely meaningless without it). Many people really enjoy sports dramas in film. Very few people want to pack endless hours over a period of years into athletic training and then find out they've only got even odds against the opponent who also trained hard. Even fewer people want to just beat sports video-games by some athletic equivalent of "Rare Candies", leveling up without actually training or working hard. Oh, and people who actually try to do the stuff portrayed in romantic comedies are called creeps, let alone the entire creepy-vampire-romance section of the bookstore. People would have a much better point about escapism "overtaking" real life if more of our culture's fantasies consisted of experiences we actually really want to live through when confronted with the possibility.
danieldk 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_machine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_machine

by bloaf 13y ago

stormbrew 13y ago

And this means progress stops ... because...? I could see making this argument for true AI, maybe, but even then I doubt it's true. When in human history has allowing people's minds greater degrees of freedom resulted in progress slowing down, let alone stopping? This just sounds like "Kids these days..." kind of nonsense to me.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

That's bunk. Most people don't care about fake experiences.

wildpeaks 13y ago
Only because they're not good enough at the moment: once it's indistinguishable from reality, they'll choose the path of lesser resistance that gives them the most control.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Let me put it this way: imagine the derision, scorn, and hatred heaped upon furries, /a/utists, Tumblrites, bronies, MMORPG addicts, and all other sorts of low-status netizens who are already perceived as overly escapist, and who thus get labeled "faggots" and beaten up for their lunch money. Now multiply it by a rather large quantity. In fact, you might have to outright square it. That is how people are going to act towards those who deliberately cut themselves off from real life to spend time on VRs. There is going to be bullying among children and harassment among adults (but I repeat myself). There will be lawsuits and alarmist attempts at legislation. Now, I don't really think either side of this coming dichotomy is healthy or correct. I think that escapism is fun, but it's not real life, but it is a strict subset of valid ways to spend real-life time. However, if your prediction bears out, that dichotomy is going to form.
bjt 13y ago
Most people spend quite a lot of time having "fake experiences". TV, movies, and video games are wildly popular, and consume quite a lot of people's time. As they become more immersive through VR, and provide an even better escape from reality, it's natural to expect them to become more popular, not less.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  TV, movie, and video game story-lines also near-uniformly consist of situations that would be unpleasant or even traumatizing to actually live through. Everyone thinks it's a great story when the heroine sets out to avenge her father's murder and ends up saving the world. Most people do not actually want to have their father murdered and then deal with an existentially-threatening war for the survival of the human species. Likewise, everyone enjoys a good round of the Hero's Journey, but most people don't really want Spiderman-level responsibility (and yet find superheroism largely meaningless without it). Many people really enjoy sports dramas in film. Very few people want to pack endless hours over a period of years into athletic training and then find out they've only got even odds against the opponent who also trained hard. Even fewer people want to just beat sports video-games by some athletic equivalent of "Rare Candies", leveling up without actually training or working hard. Oh, and people who actually try to do the stuff portrayed in romantic comedies are called creeps, let alone the entire creepy-vampire-romance section of the bookstore. People would have a much better point about escapism "overtaking" real life if more of our culture's fantasies consisted of experiences we actually really want to live through when confronted with the possibility.

danieldk 13y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_machine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_machine