3 ms·

Take that one step farther and you wind up with silliness such as an unwillingness to discuss obvious gender mental differences such as the differential perform

Take that one step farther and you wind up with silliness such as an unwillingness to discuss obvious gender mental differences such as the differential performance under the Piaget water level test So what? The veracity of scientific studies is not at issue here. My point is that unlike the abortion debate, there are no muddy waters in play here. It's unequivocally wrong to deny homosexual couples the same legal rights as heterosexual couples, there is just no other reason beyond bigotry to deny them the freedom to be married. I'm not saying that we should hunt down all the bigots, I'm saying that bigotry alone is not a satisfactory justification for any position and is easily rejected as such. But wait, what can of worms did I just open? I suggested a connection between widespread homophobia and an innate phenomena that causes the vast majority of humans to feel revulsion under the right circumstances. And it is a pretty strong revulsion Ok... Perhaps that's a possible explanation, it's also a completely irreverent one. I am revolted by the sight of individuals who put 4 inch gauges in their ears, but that personal disgust doesn't justify an attack on their right to start a consensual legal relationship with another consenting adult. My disgust doesn't matter. Their relationship is none of my business. Laws against gay marriage are in a similar vein to sodomy laws, namely, a bunch of hateful, entitled, "revolted" traditionalists who want to leverage the force of the government to prevent consenting adults from living their lives in a way that affects nobody but themselves. It's simply wrong. There are no two ways about it, nobody gains anything by keeping homosexuals away from marriage, it's only purpose is to deliberately deny homosexual couples the satisfaction of inclusion in a legally recognized institution.

btilly 13y ago
My point is not the veracity of scientific studies. My point is that a blanket rejection of all forms of bigotry creates an emotional barrier to useful discussion of those studies. Whole avenues of research are cut off as verboten. Furthermore what you are stating is your personal opinion that a sense of revulsion and disgust is not a valid source of moral opinions. But now you're opening another can of worms. Preliminary results from brain research have identified 5 different subsystems in our brain that underly opinions that get called "moral". Those 5 systems are: 1. Recognition of suffering in others. 2. Reciprocity (the golden rule). 3. Hierarchy (respect for elders, power systems, etc). 4. Coalitionary bonding (loyalty to your group, patriotism, etc). 5. Purity (praising cleanliness, viewing things as gross). In general liberal moral systems tend to focus on the first 2 and conservative moral systems tend to focus on the last 3. As much as you think that revulsion and disgust are not proper bases for moral opinions, most of the world disagrees with you. And if you want to live in a democracy, you're going to have to live with results that you don't like. Furthermore no amount of complaining on your part is going to change this inconvenient truth.

btilly 13y ago

My point is not the veracity of scientific studies. My point is that a blanket rejection of all forms of bigotry creates an emotional barrier to useful discussion of those studies. Whole avenues of research are cut off as verboten. Furthermore what you are stating is your personal opinion that a sense of revulsion and disgust is not a valid source of moral opinions. But now you're opening another can of worms. Preliminary results from brain research have identified 5 different subsystems in our brain that underly opinions that get called "moral". Those 5 systems are: 1. Recognition of suffering in others. 2. Reciprocity (the golden rule). 3. Hierarchy (respect for elders, power systems, etc). 4. Coalitionary bonding (loyalty to your group, patriotism, etc). 5. Purity (praising cleanliness, viewing things as gross). In general liberal moral systems tend to focus on the first 2 and conservative moral systems tend to focus on the last 3. As much as you think that revulsion and disgust are not proper bases for moral opinions, most of the world disagrees with you. And if you want to live in a democracy, you're going to have to live with results that you don't like. Furthermore no amount of complaining on your part is going to change this inconvenient truth.