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It's kinda funny how that worked out.. First, companies demanded employees write in C++, until employees demanded that companies start letting them use Java. Th

It's kinda funny how that worked out.. First, companies demanded employees write in C++, until employees demanded that companies start letting them use Java. Then, companies demanded that employees use Java, until employees demanded that companies start allowing them to use Ruby on Rails. Now companies demand that we use Ruby on Rails. All because we told them to.

willismichael 13y ago
That just means that the growth in clojure jobs should be here in just a few more years, right?
- mattgreenrocks 13y ago
  This presumes Clojure will be accepted by the mainstream. Anything's possible, but Lisp has difficulty here.
beat 13y ago
I don't think the paradigm shifts happened because of programmer demand. Java's dominance came about because JEE (and J2EE) and application servers happened along at the very moment that the burgeoning internet and better browsers were driving architectural change. Firstest with mostest. Really, has anyone written a serious application server in C++? Add in massive enterprise support from IBM, Sun, and Oracle, and you get a winner. Ruby on Rails was the spearhead of the whole convention-over-configuration paradigm, and getting back to simple, less expensive tools that stay out of the way. It's still not market-dominant if you get out of the startup bubble, nor are any of its followers. Java has ruled for over a decade.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  > Really, has anyone written a serious application server in C++? Lots of them. Before J2EE, there was a world of C++ with CORBA.
  - beat 13y ago
    Okay, how about a serious C++ application server written in the 21st century? CORBA? Really? Why not just hand-roll on raw sockets like a REAL programmer?
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      What about a hipster NoSQL DB called MongoDB?
      - beat 13y ago
        MongoDB isn't an application server. It's a database engine.
        pjmlp 13y ago
        It is an application that makes use of a database engine, exposing data access services, either locally or via the network as a server.
        beat 13y ago
        Maybe I'm being pedantic, but to me, an application server is something that you write programs for in a general-purpose programming language - that's how databases (where code is written in sql or something similar) don't qualify. Programs that run within application servers are written in langauges like Java and C#. To my knowledge, there are no app servers designed to run code written in C++. Certainly, none that are mainstream.
        pjmlp 13y ago
        Is IIS mainstream enough then? http://www.iis.net/learn/develop/runtime-extensibility/develop-a-native-cc-module-for-iis http://www.iis.net/learn/develop/runtime-extensibility/devel...
  - waterlesscloud 13y ago

willismichael 13y ago

That just means that the growth in clojure jobs should be here in just a few more years, right?

mattgreenrocks 13y ago
This presumes Clojure will be accepted by the mainstream. Anything's possible, but Lisp has difficulty here.

beat 13y ago

I don't think the paradigm shifts happened because of programmer demand. Java's dominance came about because JEE (and J2EE) and application servers happened along at the very moment that the burgeoning internet and better browsers were driving architectural change. Firstest with mostest. Really, has anyone written a serious application server in C++? Add in massive enterprise support from IBM, Sun, and Oracle, and you get a winner. Ruby on Rails was the spearhead of the whole convention-over-configuration paradigm, and getting back to simple, less expensive tools that stay out of the way. It's still not market-dominant if you get out of the startup bubble, nor are any of its followers. Java has ruled for over a decade.

pjmlp 13y ago
> Really, has anyone written a serious application server in C++? Lots of them. Before J2EE, there was a world of C++ with CORBA.
- beat 13y ago
  Okay, how about a serious C++ application server written in the 21st century? CORBA? Really? Why not just hand-roll on raw sockets like a REAL programmer?
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    What about a hipster NoSQL DB called MongoDB?
    - beat 13y ago
      MongoDB isn't an application server. It's a database engine.
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        It is an application that makes use of a database engine, exposing data access services, either locally or via the network as a server.
        beat 13y ago
        Maybe I'm being pedantic, but to me, an application server is something that you write programs for in a general-purpose programming language - that's how databases (where code is written in sql or something similar) don't qualify. Programs that run within application servers are written in langauges like Java and C#. To my knowledge, there are no app servers designed to run code written in C++. Certainly, none that are mainstream.
        pjmlp 13y ago
        Is IIS mainstream enough then? http://www.iis.net/learn/develop/runtime-extensibility/develop-a-native-cc-module-for-iis http://www.iis.net/learn/develop/runtime-extensibility/devel...
- waterlesscloud 13y ago