6 ms·

Backup Awareness Week

36 points by nanch 13y ago

mkempe 13y ago
What is your experience in educating non-tech people about the need and adequate methods for backups? I've found that they'll listen, but not act if it takes several steps and new routines.
- jnadeau 13y ago
  So true, I have a hard time just getting people to hook up an external to backup via Time Machine. These are the same people that come to me asking if I can somehow magically recover a file for them or get their pictures back...
- mkempe 13y ago
  Another problem I've noticed: many people have no idea how fragile hard drives are, and they keep old ones around for years -- with a precious, unique copy of their early photo libraries... Not only is the hard-drive unused for years, but they sometimes no longer have the necessary connections available (e.g. FireWire) on their latest laptop.
  - TenDnal 13y ago
    Yeah, I know what you are talking about, I d wish tech giants started having backward compatibility as a rule when creating any new gadget or a means to store data. Probably there's no ultimate means to save the data now.
biesnecker 13y ago
This is like Tongue Awareness Month [http://xkcd.com/972/ http://xkcd.com/972/] for me. Intellectually I always know the state of my backups is pitiful, but now it's in the front of my mind and I can't stop thinking about it. ;-)
- mtford 13y ago
  I hate you.
  - huskyr 13y ago
    Enjoy the next four weeks.
- chillingeffect 13y ago
  Jokes like this derive their humor by encouraging alienation from our bodies. There is nothing wrong or unusual with being aware of our tongues. There is nothing superior or powerful about others who make try to make us uncomfortable with ourselves. This is nothing spooky, troubling or surprising about our breathing (as some similar posts elsewhere suggest "you are now breathing in manual mode. you just realized you have a skeleton."). There is no reason to allow ourselves to experience any anxiety through becoming aware of our own bodies. The only reason any of this "humor" works at all is because we are so thoroughly conditioned to have our minds focused outside of ourselves, on our work, on our needs and those society puts upon us that we rarely get to focus on ourselves and our bodies. And when we do, it's all too often because someone else is "rating" us or when we're trying to please others. Let's all commit to dismissing false humor that suggests focusing attention on ourselves is anything but familiar, comfortable and impervious to psychological hijack by others.
diggan 13y ago
So what would be a good, affordable backup solution that doesn't get in my way on my linux machine?
- nanch 13y ago
  Good question! cperciva supports Tarsnap. It's not included on the "deals" page yet, but I'd be happy to add Tarsnap if he wants to participate. We did our best to invite all of the backup software companies (the more the merrier)! Better deals for customers means more people backing up! To participate, drop me a line at hello@backupweek.com.
- rickyc091 13y ago
  A mac user, but I've been using crashplan (linux available) for the past three years and I love it. Haven't had any issues yet.
  - keithg 13y ago
    I second the nomination for crashplan. I use it on Windows, but linux client is available.
- r12e 13y ago
  I simply rsync my entire server (over ssh) to a large disk on another box. Super easy to set up and the backed up data doesn't need any special software to read/restore, beyond standard 'nix tools.
  - nodata 13y ago
    Except if your files get corrupted, then you're screwed.
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      I solve this by supplementing the daily networked backups with weekly manual backups to an external hard drive that remains disconnected at all other times.
jve 13y ago
Good thing that today, thanks to Dropbox/Google Drive/OneDrive etc., its more easy to get free backups up and running.
nodata 13y ago
Is this linked to Reddit's World Backup Day on 31st March? http://www.worldbackupday.com/en/ http://www.worldbackupday.com/en/
- nanch 13y ago
  Hey nodata! Actually we tried to get in touch with the creator of World Backup Day but regretfully we didn't get a response. So Backup Awareness Week is not associated with World Backup Day, but we support each other's goals of increasing awareness of the importance of regular backups.
mynegation 13y ago
Is there any good site out there where people showcase their backup setups, similar in spirit to http://macmenubars.com/ http://macmenubars.com/ or http://usesthis.com/ http://usesthis.com/ ?
nakedrobot2 13y ago
I know all about the importance of Backups. Mirroring is not a backup. Raid is not a backup. Hard disks are not supposed to sit on a shelf unplugged for extended periods. Fine. Now, how the hell do I backup my 5TB of photos? :-( :-( Edit: Lots of fantastic information here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7371725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7371725 Is there any service that can burn my terabytes of data onto multiple copies on "made in japan taiyo yuden" CDR? :-)
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Copy them to 2x 3TB drives, put the drives in a safe deposit box or store them in a fire safe at a friend or relative's house.
  - nakedrobot2 13y ago
    Let me repeat: "Hard disks are not supposed to sit on a shelf unplugged for extended periods." This even more the case with the very large capacity disks you are mentioning here.
    - trebor 13y ago
      If you archive disks like this, you need to run software like SpinRite on them ever so often to maintain them. I'd suggest that you do it every time you update your archive on the disks.
    - jrs235 13y ago
      As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, what about burning them to 50 triple or quadruple layer Blu-ray Discs (BD-R's) then store them in a fire proof safe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable
    - pjc50 13y ago
      [citation needed] A lot depends on whether you're doing a backup or an archive; if it's a backup you'll be rotating the disks in periodically.
KevinBongart 13y ago
While this is a cool project, I unfortunately doubt it will convince the 90% of people who don't back up their stuff. I had an idea like that a few months ago after spending time with my family and my girlfriend's family. We need a simple page that explains in big images why: 1. chances are, you will lose your data 2. here's a one-click thing to make sure it doesn't happen For 1, we can't use the word "data" because people won't connect emotionally with the concept. "Photos from your last summer vacation", "The video of your kid's first step" etc. would be more powerful. For 2, I was looking for solutions that provide automatic, continuous and off-site backup that is easy to recover. Without any of these criteria, a backup strategy is effectively useless. (+ secure, affordable, etc. but these are extras). I personally use and always recommend Backblaze for these reasons (one click install that just works and gets out of the way), but there might be other solutions. Anyway, I'd love to see this project get somewhere, probably a GitHub page where people can contribute and provide 3-step tutorials for iCloud (so many people don't back up there iPhone when it's right there, baked in) and other platforms. Interested? Get in touch: contact@kevinbongart.net
Springtime 13y ago
As many have found first-hand for most people there is too much additional research/knowledge required for them to consider the effort worthwhile, although I like the idea of an awareness week for backups. Having a video I could point people to, or even simple instructions for a specific way of backing up using Windows or OSX would be a more effective way of reminding people. There are all kinds of local and cloud backup solutions out there that having a site which filtered through them would actually be great, but obviously outside the scope of the site which is more a friendly reminder to be aware and prepare.
trebor 13y ago
To underscore the importance of backups: We've been aware that our data and backup policies were lacking, and have been discussing ways to improve that. We have more than 500gb of work and client data that is highly valuable, and thousands of dollars in stock photos to boot. Then one of our systems got hit by cryptodefense (the latest variant of cryptolocker). It encrypted the NAS drives faster than we could notice, and destroyed some 99% of our data. If it had been able to propagate to just 1 other system, which we did a nightly mirror of the NAS to, we'd have lost everything. Since then, we've been trying to set up backups to Amazon Glacier. Don't underestimate the ease with which data loss can affect you. It could be a malicious link in a phishing email, a malicious attachment, bit rot, a natural disaster, or simple hardware failure. The cost of maintaining offsite backups is cheaper than recovering from data loss.
austinpray 13y ago
What do you guys think of http://tarsnap.com http://tarsnap.com ? I need to backup some sensitive client data off-location and the concept seems pretty good.
huhtenberg 13y ago
So this is what stemmed from "World Backup Day" guy grabbing a trademark, shutting everyone out and turning spontaneous reddit project into his personal little cash cow? Pissed masses countered with "Backup Week", which still appears to be thinly veiled ad spread for backup companies. What next? "Backup Month"? This is getting ridiculous. [0] http://www.worldbackupday.com http://www.worldbackupday.com
- nanch 13y ago
  What's ridiculous about it? Getting people to backup their files is important. What's the problem?
  - eps 13y ago
    The problem is your motivation, which is disingenious - "You should be backing up, we are worried for you, ah, oh, use these products (from random people who just won a bid for our ad spots)". Ever seen those "hosting provider ranking" sites that rank top entries purely based on the fees paid to them? That's you. You want to fix this perception? Remove Sponsors, add complete listings of all notable backup products, invest time in reviewing them and allow ranking and comments. Then you will have something that would start to justify your preachy stance. Until then you are in just for a quick money grab and it's pretty damn obvious.
    - Leovinis 13y ago
      There is a link to Wikipedia's exhaustive list of providers right by Step 2 in the Quick Start Guide. Also, providers have a legitimate incentive to help people. They may even like why they do what they do.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

36 points by nanch 13y ago

What is your experience in educating non-tech people about the need and adequate methods for backups? I've found that they'll listen, but not act if it takes several steps and new routines.

jnadeau 13y ago
So true, I have a hard time just getting people to hook up an external to backup via Time Machine. These are the same people that come to me asking if I can somehow magically recover a file for them or get their pictures back...
mkempe 13y ago
Another problem I've noticed: many people have no idea how fragile hard drives are, and they keep old ones around for years -- with a precious, unique copy of their early photo libraries... Not only is the hard-drive unused for years, but they sometimes no longer have the necessary connections available (e.g. FireWire) on their latest laptop.
- TenDnal 13y ago
  Yeah, I know what you are talking about, I d wish tech giants started having backward compatibility as a rule when creating any new gadget or a means to store data. Probably there's no ultimate means to save the data now.

biesnecker 13y ago

This is like Tongue Awareness Month [http://xkcd.com/972/ http://xkcd.com/972/] for me. Intellectually I always know the state of my backups is pitiful, but now it's in the front of my mind and I can't stop thinking about it. ;-)

mtford 13y ago
I hate you.
- huskyr 13y ago
  Enjoy the next four weeks.
chillingeffect 13y ago
Jokes like this derive their humor by encouraging alienation from our bodies. There is nothing wrong or unusual with being aware of our tongues. There is nothing superior or powerful about others who make try to make us uncomfortable with ourselves. This is nothing spooky, troubling or surprising about our breathing (as some similar posts elsewhere suggest "you are now breathing in manual mode. you just realized you have a skeleton."). There is no reason to allow ourselves to experience any anxiety through becoming aware of our own bodies. The only reason any of this "humor" works at all is because we are so thoroughly conditioned to have our minds focused outside of ourselves, on our work, on our needs and those society puts upon us that we rarely get to focus on ourselves and our bodies. And when we do, it's all too often because someone else is "rating" us or when we're trying to please others. Let's all commit to dismissing false humor that suggests focusing attention on ourselves is anything but familiar, comfortable and impervious to psychological hijack by others.

diggan 13y ago

So what would be a good, affordable backup solution that doesn't get in my way on my linux machine?

nanch 13y ago
Good question! cperciva supports Tarsnap. It's not included on the "deals" page yet, but I'd be happy to add Tarsnap if he wants to participate. We did our best to invite all of the backup software companies (the more the merrier)! Better deals for customers means more people backing up! To participate, drop me a line at hello@backupweek.com.
rickyc091 13y ago
A mac user, but I've been using crashplan (linux available) for the past three years and I love it. Haven't had any issues yet.
- keithg 13y ago
  I second the nomination for crashplan. I use it on Windows, but linux client is available.
r12e 13y ago
I simply rsync my entire server (over ssh) to a large disk on another box. Super easy to set up and the backed up data doesn't need any special software to read/restore, beyond standard 'nix tools.
- nodata 13y ago
  Except if your files get corrupted, then you're screwed.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    I solve this by supplementing the daily networked backups with weekly manual backups to an external hard drive that remains disconnected at all other times.

jve 13y ago

Good thing that today, thanks to Dropbox/Google Drive/OneDrive etc., its more easy to get free backups up and running.

nodata 13y ago

Is this linked to Reddit's World Backup Day on 31st March? http://www.worldbackupday.com/en/ http://www.worldbackupday.com/en/

nanch 13y ago
Hey nodata! Actually we tried to get in touch with the creator of World Backup Day but regretfully we didn't get a response. So Backup Awareness Week is not associated with World Backup Day, but we support each other's goals of increasing awareness of the importance of regular backups.

mynegation 13y ago

Is there any good site out there where people showcase their backup setups, similar in spirit to http://macmenubars.com/ http://macmenubars.com/ or http://usesthis.com/ http://usesthis.com/ ?

nakedrobot2 13y ago

I know all about the importance of Backups. Mirroring is not a backup. Raid is not a backup. Hard disks are not supposed to sit on a shelf unplugged for extended periods. Fine. Now, how the hell do I backup my 5TB of photos? :-( :-( Edit: Lots of fantastic information here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7371725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7371725 Is there any service that can burn my terabytes of data onto multiple copies on "made in japan taiyo yuden" CDR? :-)

InclinedPlane 13y ago
Copy them to 2x 3TB drives, put the drives in a safe deposit box or store them in a fire safe at a friend or relative's house.
- nakedrobot2 13y ago
  Let me repeat: "Hard disks are not supposed to sit on a shelf unplugged for extended periods." This even more the case with the very large capacity disks you are mentioning here.
  - trebor 13y ago
    If you archive disks like this, you need to run software like SpinRite on them ever so often to maintain them. I'd suggest that you do it every time you update your archive on the disks.
  - jrs235 13y ago
    As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, what about burning them to 50 triple or quadruple layer Blu-ray Discs (BD-R's) then store them in a fire proof safe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable
  - pjc50 13y ago
    [citation needed] A lot depends on whether you're doing a backup or an archive; if it's a backup you'll be rotating the disks in periodically.

KevinBongart 13y ago

While this is a cool project, I unfortunately doubt it will convince the 90% of people who don't back up their stuff. I had an idea like that a few months ago after spending time with my family and my girlfriend's family. We need a simple page that explains in big images why: 1. chances are, you will lose your data 2. here's a one-click thing to make sure it doesn't happen For 1, we can't use the word "data" because people won't connect emotionally with the concept. "Photos from your last summer vacation", "The video of your kid's first step" etc. would be more powerful. For 2, I was looking for solutions that provide automatic, continuous and off-site backup that is easy to recover. Without any of these criteria, a backup strategy is effectively useless. (+ secure, affordable, etc. but these are extras). I personally use and always recommend Backblaze for these reasons (one click install that just works and gets out of the way), but there might be other solutions. Anyway, I'd love to see this project get somewhere, probably a GitHub page where people can contribute and provide 3-step tutorials for iCloud (so many people don't back up there iPhone when it's right there, baked in) and other platforms. Interested? Get in touch: contact@kevinbongart.net

Springtime 13y ago

As many have found first-hand for most people there is too much additional research/knowledge required for them to consider the effort worthwhile, although I like the idea of an awareness week for backups. Having a video I could point people to, or even simple instructions for a specific way of backing up using Windows or OSX would be a more effective way of reminding people. There are all kinds of local and cloud backup solutions out there that having a site which filtered through them would actually be great, but obviously outside the scope of the site which is more a friendly reminder to be aware and prepare.

trebor 13y ago

To underscore the importance of backups: We've been aware that our data and backup policies were lacking, and have been discussing ways to improve that. We have more than 500gb of work and client data that is highly valuable, and thousands of dollars in stock photos to boot. Then one of our systems got hit by cryptodefense (the latest variant of cryptolocker). It encrypted the NAS drives faster than we could notice, and destroyed some 99% of our data. If it had been able to propagate to just 1 other system, which we did a nightly mirror of the NAS to, we'd have lost everything. Since then, we've been trying to set up backups to Amazon Glacier. Don't underestimate the ease with which data loss can affect you. It could be a malicious link in a phishing email, a malicious attachment, bit rot, a natural disaster, or simple hardware failure. The cost of maintaining offsite backups is cheaper than recovering from data loss.

austinpray 13y ago

What do you guys think of http://tarsnap.com http://tarsnap.com ? I need to backup some sensitive client data off-location and the concept seems pretty good.

huhtenberg 13y ago

So this is what stemmed from "World Backup Day" guy grabbing a trademark, shutting everyone out and turning spontaneous reddit project into his personal little cash cow? Pissed masses countered with "Backup Week", which still appears to be thinly veiled ad spread for backup companies. What next? "Backup Month"? This is getting ridiculous. [0] http://www.worldbackupday.com http://www.worldbackupday.com

nanch 13y ago
What's ridiculous about it? Getting people to backup their files is important. What's the problem?
- eps 13y ago
  The problem is your motivation, which is disingenious - "You should be backing up, we are worried for you, ah, oh, use these products (from random people who just won a bid for our ad spots)". Ever seen those "hosting provider ranking" sites that rank top entries purely based on the fees paid to them? That's you. You want to fix this perception? Remove Sponsors, add complete listings of all notable backup products, invest time in reviewing them and allow ranking and comments. Then you will have something that would start to justify your preachy stance. Until then you are in just for a quick money grab and it's pretty damn obvious.
  - Leovinis 13y ago
    There is a link to Wikipedia's exhaustive list of providers right by Step 2 in the Quick Start Guide. Also, providers have a legitimate incentive to help people. They may even like why they do what they do.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]