3 ms·

Companies that want foreign talent should setup branches in the originating countries. Countries will not grow when their talent is poached. Immigrants also put

by Xdes 13y ago

Companies that want foreign talent should setup branches in the originating countries. Countries will not grow when their talent is poached. Immigrants also put local workers into unfair competition when their home countries offer social programs such as free higher education.

snarfy 13y ago
Setting up shop in the originating country would make the foreign talent no longer cheap. They want their cake and they want to eat it too.
- aetherson 13y ago
  That doesn't seem likely to be true. What makes you think it's cheaper to shepherd an employee from, say, India through an H1B process and then pay them in the Bay Area versus setting up shop in India and employing Indians there? There'd be a one-time cost to creating a campus in India, but honestly, it would be more than compensated for by the fact that they could almost certainly pay Indians in India a considerably lower wage than Indians in the Bay Area. The reason they don't make their major campuses in other countries versus the US is because they feel that they have talent that is determined to stay in the US and which will not cross-pollinate well with physically remote offices, not because they think that it is cheaper to employ foreigners in the US than it would be in their home countries.
hyperpape 13y ago
Are you sure about that? I've read studies that say that the opportunity to move overseas is quite helpful in the case of doctors because it creates incentives to get medical training, and many of the people who receive that training do not move. Obviously it's a complex topic, but why are you so sure?
speeder 13y ago
This unfortunately, does not work. And not for lack of trying, IBM, Google, Microsoft, and many other tech giants have subsidiaries here in Brazil for example. Yet, everytime you hear about a brazillian that achieved something great recently, was NOT inside Brazil. I can tell you, my personal reasons why I don't even applied to MS, IBM, etc here in Brazil: You have all problems of working in a big corporation, yet the pay is still terrible. But I DID applied for US MS for example, because although it obviously has the same problems as working in BR MS, the pay is much, much higher (inside MS itself the US pay is about 4 times the BR pay for a entry level position). Thus the best talent from Brazil (or India, or China) don't stay in their countries, they end leaving their countries, even if to work in companies that do exist in their countries, seeking a better life. Now, why MS US and MS BR has so drastic pay gap? Basically, because of the things that made the US a great place to create startups in first place: much less regulation in general, much less corruption, and better infrastructure, in Brazil the mininum costs of running a company, without counting the employee wages, is so high, that not much money is left to actually pay the employees, we call this here "Brazil Cost". Some examples: Brazil is the country in the world that is most complicated to pay the taxes, as result is the country where companies use a largest portion of their money paying accountants and tax lawyers. Brazil has second highest taxes of the world (first place is Sweden). Yet Brazil security, roads, etc... suck, to the point that most big companies in Brazil are concentrated in a private-built city named AlphaVille, companies and rich people living in AlphaVille built with their own private money their streets, guard stations, walls, electricity lines, etc... and pay with their own private money for cops, schools for their children, firefighters, etc... And STILL pay all the taxes normally too, as you can expect, running a business there (or living there) is crazy expensive. Yet running our business there, is a necessity, when you have people assaulting business in São Paulo and Rio using heavy military weapons (even Bazookas were witnessed), you have no choice but to run your business in a private ran fortress, and pay everything doubled (once in form of taxes, and once in form of private contracts that actually solve your problem).
teacup50 13y ago
Our small company wants to hire the best candidate who happens to be a foreign citizen -- and you think we should set up a branch in said foreign country (which we could never afford) instead of securing a visa? Why is the competition "unfair"? If it's unfair because we don't offer "social programs such as free higher education", then the solution ought to be offering those programs, not hamstringing US companies.

by Xdes 13y ago

snarfy 13y ago

Setting up shop in the originating country would make the foreign talent no longer cheap. They want their cake and they want to eat it too.

aetherson 13y ago
That doesn't seem likely to be true. What makes you think it's cheaper to shepherd an employee from, say, India through an H1B process and then pay them in the Bay Area versus setting up shop in India and employing Indians there? There'd be a one-time cost to creating a campus in India, but honestly, it would be more than compensated for by the fact that they could almost certainly pay Indians in India a considerably lower wage than Indians in the Bay Area. The reason they don't make their major campuses in other countries versus the US is because they feel that they have talent that is determined to stay in the US and which will not cross-pollinate well with physically remote offices, not because they think that it is cheaper to employ foreigners in the US than it would be in their home countries.

hyperpape 13y ago

Are you sure about that? I've read studies that say that the opportunity to move overseas is quite helpful in the case of doctors because it creates incentives to get medical training, and many of the people who receive that training do not move. Obviously it's a complex topic, but why are you so sure?

speeder 13y ago

This unfortunately, does not work. And not for lack of trying, IBM, Google, Microsoft, and many other tech giants have subsidiaries here in Brazil for example. Yet, everytime you hear about a brazillian that achieved something great recently, was NOT inside Brazil. I can tell you, my personal reasons why I don't even applied to MS, IBM, etc here in Brazil: You have all problems of working in a big corporation, yet the pay is still terrible. But I DID applied for US MS for example, because although it obviously has the same problems as working in BR MS, the pay is much, much higher (inside MS itself the US pay is about 4 times the BR pay for a entry level position). Thus the best talent from Brazil (or India, or China) don't stay in their countries, they end leaving their countries, even if to work in companies that do exist in their countries, seeking a better life. Now, why MS US and MS BR has so drastic pay gap? Basically, because of the things that made the US a great place to create startups in first place: much less regulation in general, much less corruption, and better infrastructure, in Brazil the mininum costs of running a company, without counting the employee wages, is so high, that not much money is left to actually pay the employees, we call this here "Brazil Cost". Some examples: Brazil is the country in the world that is most complicated to pay the taxes, as result is the country where companies use a largest portion of their money paying accountants and tax lawyers. Brazil has second highest taxes of the world (first place is Sweden). Yet Brazil security, roads, etc... suck, to the point that most big companies in Brazil are concentrated in a private-built city named AlphaVille, companies and rich people living in AlphaVille built with their own private money their streets, guard stations, walls, electricity lines, etc... and pay with their own private money for cops, schools for their children, firefighters, etc... And STILL pay all the taxes normally too, as you can expect, running a business there (or living there) is crazy expensive. Yet running our business there, is a necessity, when you have people assaulting business in São Paulo and Rio using heavy military weapons (even Bazookas were witnessed), you have no choice but to run your business in a private ran fortress, and pay everything doubled (once in form of taxes, and once in form of private contracts that actually solve your problem).

teacup50 13y ago

Our small company wants to hire the best candidate who happens to be a foreign citizen -- and you think we should set up a branch in said foreign country (which we could never afford) instead of securing a visa? Why is the competition "unfair"? If it's unfair because we don't offer "social programs such as free higher education", then the solution ought to be offering those programs, not hamstringing US companies.