8 ms·

"Brainstorming is a terrible way to generate good ideas"

68 points by gphilip 13y ago

gphilip 13y ago
Interview with Prof Vincent Walsh of UCL, one of the world’s preeminent cognitive neuroscientists. Some interesting points from the interview: 1. You’re only aware of less than 1% of your brain activity, and most creativity happens in the other 99%. 2. If you want to stimulate an idea, you need to give your brain time to go “off-line”. 3. Creativity is not a team sport, and brainstorming is a terrible way to generate good ideas. 4. Execution of ideas is more important than generation, and previous failure helps this. 5. There are no miracle exercises / processes / drugs / brain implants to “turn on creativity” in areas where it didn’t previously exist. 6. However, creativity can be improved by giving people the right exercises, knowledge, experiences and environment.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  It also seems to contradict some things that I heard about creativity, namely that period right after waking is when you are at your most creative. Severe lack of sleep would cause person to extend that period, but it would increase noise to signal ratio.
- semerda 13y ago
  #2 - Yes. Jumping into an Isolation Tank (sensory deprivation) is a great hack to kickstart an immersive off-line mode.. You need to truly go offline for this work. A walk might not always yield this. Hence I recommend the use of hacks like an Isolation Tank or just plain Meditation. For those interested in Isolation Tanks I wrote a piece here: http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/floatation-tank-isolation-tanks/ http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/float... - a truly hackers hack!
  - danieltillett 13y ago
    Having a shower is almost as good - lots of white noise and shower water is the touch equivalent of white noise. Close your eyes and with only the smell and taste of warm water you are in a el cheapo isolation tank.
    - digitalengineer 13y ago
      Specific music like DJ Armin van Buuren's A State of Trance helps me. There are lyrics but you don't actually have to listen to the words, they sort of blend in the music. It's, well, a state of trance. http://www.538.nl/programma/37/a-state-of-trance/gemist/detail/17309/a-state-of-trance http://www.538.nl/programma/37/a-state-of-trance/gemist/deta...
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      Works for me tremendously well, and that's why few years ago I bought a waterproof notepad and take it with me to the shower. I do that often when I'm confused or out of ideas how to continue something. Actually, the best public talks I gave were all designed in the shower ;).
- Jare 13y ago
  Brainstorming is a way to explore ideas, not create them.
  - JulianMorrison 13y ago
    I think the fundamental mistake in brainstorming is thinking that out-there ideas are a good approach. And that comes from underestimating the size of idea-space. Exploring idea-space without a map doesn't break you out of your own limitations, because combinations are infinite but your own mind is not. So you flail generating unworkable ideas within the box rather than hill-climbing towards a workable one that might be out of the box. What is missing is a heuristic. Like, nobody would expect an AI to generate good ideas by throwing random numbers in the air. They would demand to see some heuristic for iterative improvement.
    - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
      Yeah it can be like that. But also its a time for everybody to throw out the ideas they already had, but haven't shared.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
  - kzrdude 13y ago
    Maybe its function is social rather than creative -- simply giving permission to throw anything out there.
- Springtime 13y ago
  John Cleese made a brilliant talk some time back about stimulating creativity (actually more about using such time more effectively) [1]. The talk highlighted various practical concepts he found useful for entering into a better creative, or 'open', mode. Well worth watching for those interested, and touched on a few of the points highlighted by Walsh. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- stefanix 13y ago
  All of the above is easy to understand when you think of creativity as unconscious problem solving. Also John Cleese has a great talk about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - exodust 13y ago
    Yeah I dunno, it's a long video. Is there a transcript? I can't listen to Cleese for more than the average length of a comedy sketch. As for creativity not being a team sport, and brainstorming being "terrible", I disagree. Creative ideas need organised foundations, and brainstorming can solve problems for a team to action and expand creative ideas. The band jamming in the garage, is their musical brainstorming so terrible? "Creativity" is such a loose word. As for what it even is, I lean towards the theory I read somewhere of it being about "discovery" rather than bringing something new into the world. Creativity is the act of discovering what was already there. Works for me until I change my mind.
    - collyw 13y ago
      My experience of brainstorming is that everyone comes up with a crap idea (a couple of people will probably come up with the same idea). I can see why some are crap, and can't see why some others are. I have an OK idea, I can see is better than the crap ones. The loud people get hooked on one of the crap ideas and don't listen / or bother to comprehend why your idea may be better, they are too busy elaborating on of their crap one. My best ideas come at unusual times. Staring into space. Or Riding my bike. Crap idea wins.
- XorNot 13y ago
  Have to agree with this. Lately I've noticed that the best thinking on ideas I do is about 60 minutes after I leave some group collaborative session for generating ideas. Hence a flurry of emails and actual forward progress afterwards.
midas007 13y ago
Try out concepts as quickly and cheaply as possible. It's hard to know what works without real experiments, because idea guys think they've found the Fountain of Youth when they've just inspired people with charismatic snakeoil. Try something, anything already.
michaelwww 13y ago
Sh*t ads swoop in while reading, which always in my mind degrades the trustworthiness of the content and causes me to look for an escape out.
- gphilip 13y ago
  The interview is on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMvqkrQkYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMvqkrQkYQ . I didn't see any ads, probably because of AdBlock.
- gagege 13y ago
  Also, when you hover over the 'X' on the ad, the black 'x' swoops away and is replaced with a red 'x'. Ridiculous.
  - michaelwww 13y ago
    Ain't nobody got time for dat! Look you either got time to tell me something or sell me something but not both.
axefrog 13y ago
I actually find brainstorming a great way to refine existing ideas I've come up with but for which I don't have a clear picture of the details. Granted, it's something I'll do by myself and come back to it over time until I feel like I finally have clarity of purpose and implementation, but it is still a case of sitting there just dumping out a huge bullet point list of ideas and refinements as I think about the idea. Not only that, but often it also helps me expand the idea in directions I hadn't thought of, and sometimes pivot the idea into something even better.
- gphilip 13y ago
  The professor's point is about group brainstorming, not individual brainstorming. Indeed, what he says in the context of brainstorming (see around 13:00 in the interview) supports individual intellectual effort as a better way to come up with good ideas.
DigitalSea 13y ago
I think sometimes you can strike gold with a good brainstorming session, but it is a rare occurrence. But I do agree forcing out ideas without much thought and in usually limited amounts of time can result in some horribly uncreative ideas. You can't force an idea, they just come and history has proven you come up with creative solutions and ideas to things when you try and fail, sometimes hundreds and thousands of times. Do you think Thomas Edison invented the light-bulb right away? He failed multiple times, he didn't succeed the first time he created something. In-fact, I am fairly certain although nobody knows the exact figure, but it was over 1000 attempts. The difference between a good idea and a bad one is experimentation and the execution of said idea. Once you have the initial idea, it never hurts to have a post-idea brainstorm to help further refine the idea. Conception should be natural, but getting multiple people involved to refine the core idea I think is still a great way to help a great idea even better as you get more than one angle you should approach it from. Don't be confused here, this is a different kind of brainstorm, not an ideation brainstorm like the article touches upon. Great article that I think some companies who insist on brainstorming should read before they decide to pull an all day brainstorming session that will ultimately result in most likely nothing substantial or worthwhile.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  Thomas Edison didn't invent lightbulb, per se. He improved existing designs to make it usable.
  - zimpenfish 13y ago
    He did a lot of "improving" "existing designs". Although nowadays we call it "being a filthy thieving bastard".
    - Ygg2 13y ago
      Basically he was a more dastardly Steve Jobs.
      - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
danieltillett 13y ago
I have found that brainstorming is great for getting a really good handle on the problem. Once I know exactly what the problem is with all the associated issues then I can start to think about the best solution. Often I just let the problem ferment in the background and the solution pops up when I am doing something unrelated.
Aloha 13y ago
Brainstorming is where the initial kernel of good ideas comes from though, you take something from person A/B/C and combine it with your own - and that synergy is the source of good ideas.
jahaja 13y ago
What I think often happens in a culture where group brainstorming is common is that the few meeting specialist, often the gregarious managers, is the ones leading the meetings and is in the end labeled as the creative ones. In the end people will start to expect that these people will make the suggestions and the others will just give feedback.
bthornbury 13y ago
I had always noticed that I never came up with any good ideas during a brainstorm session. I also worried that this made me seem unintelligent to my peers so I would spend a lot of time before or after the session creating and refining my ideas to compensate. I'm glad to know I've been going about it effectively.
briantakita 13y ago
I have grown as a programmer since I started working from home with real autonomy. The software created has, by far, been my best. I'm also productively creating features, architecting the system, etc. It feels great! I'm healthier. I eat better. I exercise regularly. I'm able to take naps when I need one. I can meditate or zone out as needed. I feel focused. There's less need to appease peers on a day to day basis. I can have streams of thought without having to communicate them. I can then reflect on these thoughts & communicate a coherent story when I am ready.
coldcode 13y ago
Counter example: http://www.slashfilm.com/trivia-cafe-pixar-bugs-life-monsters-finding-nemo-walle-shuts/ http://www.slashfilm.com/trivia-cafe-pixar-bugs-life-monster...
briantakita 13y ago
"What's the value of trashing your talk" It also causes your idea to evolve or die.
ibstudios 13y ago
If people did not have egos then brainstorming would work fine. I find it is hard to be creative on the spot. I do like meetings that discuss a range of preconceived ideas.
quarterwave 13y ago
Does cathedral v. bazaar also apply to creativity? Cathedral creativity = "divine spark" of the individual. Bazaar = small/random steps shaped by the evolutionary processes of fork, commit, & pull.
duncanawoods 13y ago
If you generalise the whole world of ideas and problem solving to the word "creativity" then I have no idea what conclusions you can make. There are a great many types of idea generation to solve unrelated classes of problem. Brain-storming is most definitely a valuable tool for some but not all situations. i) discover what colleagues know about the issues ii) widen options beyond what you are immediately aware iii) make connections between different topics iv) experience explaining and talking about a problem v) get a feel of how emotionally invested colleagues are in particular decisions vi) spot bogus assumptions and false premises etc. What's the alternative suggestion, nobody works together? This type of article plays to the seductive developer trap that you can to put your head down and work on problems in isolation. Its fun and optimal for small projects but it doesn't scale. You can only build garden sheds, you will never build cathedrals. Whiteboards rock.
- vortmeester 13y ago
  All of your points are sound. But notice what's not on your list: generating new ideas, the ostensible goal of many brainstorming sessions. From what I've read elsewhere, the "alternative suggestion" that you asked for is actually a two step process: (1) Everyone, working alone, comes up with as many new ideas as they can, writing them down. It's best if you write down some crazy ones too. (2) Everyone comes together to discuss all the ideas on all the lists, in a more classic brainstorming format. Here is where your points apply. The reason for doing it this way is that people universally self censor in groups, often without knowing it, and don't contribute ideas that are too far outside the previous consensus. By taking off the immediate social pressure during ideation, you get a wider range of ideas that is more likely to contain useful new ones. Edit: I'd forgotten where I got this, until another comment mentioned Quiet by Susan Cain.
bildung 13y ago
Using brainstorming in a business context is also problematic from a social psychological point of view: For brainstorming to work as planned (collecting lots of different ideas, every idea including the quirky ones count are valid at this stage, ideas only get filtered after the brainstorming session ends), certain criteria have to be met by the group doing the session. If the boss or a potentially competing colleague is around, most people won't brainstorm freely, even though the moderator says it's ok to get crazy. For brainstorming to work as intended the group has to be cooperative and without hierarchies (really without, not startuppy without). Otherwise, people will fear the criticism of the others and only speak about the too-dull-to-fail ideas.
- duncanawoods 13y ago
  You can have hierarchy within an effective team. Its not mutually exclusive in the same way that lack of hierarchy guarantees nothing. Group problem-solving can reveal team problems and help resolve them. If your team is not working well together, you need to fix it ASAP and not avoid the situations where it comes to the fore.
  - bildung 13y ago
    > You can have hierarchy within an effective team. Absolutely! I was talking specifically about hierarchiy affecting the brainstoring method. > Group problem-solving can reveal team problems and help resolve them. If your team is not working well together, you need to fix it ASAP and not avoid the situations where it comes to the fore. I have the suspicion we are talking about different things here (me not speaking English natively could also be reason). With brainstorming I meant the specific didactic method used to generate a collection of ideas with as much breadth as possible, specifically including quirky and unusual ideas for a specific class of open questions like finding a new product idea or a name for a new project. This method has a defined process and was subject to a few paedaogical studies. I think what you have in mind is more like collectively trying to solve a specific engineering problem. In a setting like that many aspects of brainstorming methods do not apply, particularly because the problem to be solved is more closed in nature and has a specific class of right solutions. (edit: formatting)
teemo_cute 13y ago
I read the book Quiet by Susan Cain. Brainstorming was likened to as the 'New Group Think' in that book. The three reasons stated for the inefficiency of brainstorming are: (1) Production blocking (Only one person can talk at a time while others listen. Think of a single entry queue.) (2) Evaluation apprehension (Some (or most) people hesitate in presenting their idea because it might be critiqued or ridiculed.) (3) Social Loafing (There are times when members of a group will slack-off because they know other members will take over the work.)
colmanw 13y ago
I disagree with this. I've found that structured brainstorming and collaboration always yield better ideas and results than one person working solo.
- gjm11 13y ago
  That's the wrong comparison. You want to compare structured brainstorming against all the people who would have been in the brainstorm working solo. Otherwise, all you're finding is that N people are more effective than 1 person. That'll often be true; the question is how to make the best use of those N people, and the claim being made here is that brainstorming is worse than having them work mostly independently.
- aet 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-3-5_Brainwriting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-3-5_Brainwriting
NAFV_P 13y ago
I thought this would be a (common) business oriented (language) presentation, so I was quite surprised (relieved). Recently had a great idea regarding binary search trees, which came to me while felling a (real) tree, odd.
tonyblundell 13y ago
"Brainstorming sessions and equivalent ideation techniques like Creative Problem Solving have an ever-growing body of evidence showing them to be an ineffective way to generate good ideas." Any links?
- Flenser 13y ago
  Not sure if this is what you're looking for but I just found it an interesting read: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/30/120130fa_fact_lehrer?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/30/120130fa_fact_...
Bpal 13y ago
My 2 cents on the topic would be: it takes time for the brain to find a creative solution to tackle the problem, so a person has got to give a thought some time, kind of let it run on the background on its own. I've used this technique a lot of times in my life. If I can't remember where I've put something, I don't try to find it asap. I try to distract myself from the task by anything like reading news, or making a cup of tea or doing some exercises, anything really. It takes considerably less efforts to find the thing or the right solution when I don't feel that it's life or death important. And after the thing or the solution is found, it's really worth of sharing your thought with people as they might help you see some weak sides of the way you are about to take and help with peices of advice. So all in all, the best approach imho is giving a problem some time, no rush, no panic, and then share ideas with people to get the most of it.
3rd3 13y ago
I wonder how brainstorming in a collaborative text editor compares to real-life group brainstorming. In my experience using an EtherPad for brainstorming can be very fruitful because there is an element of both synchronous and asynchronous communitation. All parties can write down their ideas down simultaneously and one can comment very quickly and nonchalantly to other ideas at the same time.
nnq 13y ago
I think a better process than brainstorming would be "idea brewing" (made up future-buzz-word :) ): 1. Making the concoction: tell people about the problem they need to solve and about where to find good infos on it (and hopefully also spark their interest about the problem, otherwise it's pointless), let's say at the start of the week... 2. Brew: just leave people alone for, let's say, a week, so ideas can "ferment" in their heads... 4. Distill: meet and talk with people, have them present and discuss ideas they had and select ("distill") the ones that can be really good, let's say at the end of the week. ...now, I've never tried the process in a formal enough manner to have proof that it works better than anything, else, but according to this guy's theory it should. (now, if you use up the term "idea brewing" a bestseller buzzword-creating management or self-help book, please be a nice chap and give me some credit for it)
jsemrau 13y ago
Brainstorming ins business is like jamming in music. Teams with great synergy can create great results.
mercer 13y ago
What fascinates me is that I learned about the ineffectiveness (in general) of brainstorming back in my first year of Communication Science, which was at least six years ago, and yet everyone around me still brainstorms all the time. Why do businesses not take this research to heart?
joerich 13y ago
I think brainstorming has demonstrated that is useful, I believe in teamwork. The key is not the brainstorming but the brainstormers or teamworkers

68 points by gphilip 13y ago

Interview with Prof Vincent Walsh of UCL, one of the world’s preeminent cognitive neuroscientists. Some interesting points from the interview: 1. You’re only aware of less than 1% of your brain activity, and most creativity happens in the other 99%. 2. If you want to stimulate an idea, you need to give your brain time to go “off-line”. 3. Creativity is not a team sport, and brainstorming is a terrible way to generate good ideas. 4. Execution of ideas is more important than generation, and previous failure helps this. 5. There are no miracle exercises / processes / drugs / brain implants to “turn on creativity” in areas where it didn’t previously exist. 6. However, creativity can be improved by giving people the right exercises, knowledge, experiences and environment.

Ygg2 13y ago
It also seems to contradict some things that I heard about creativity, namely that period right after waking is when you are at your most creative. Severe lack of sleep would cause person to extend that period, but it would increase noise to signal ratio.
semerda 13y ago
#2 - Yes. Jumping into an Isolation Tank (sensory deprivation) is a great hack to kickstart an immersive off-line mode.. You need to truly go offline for this work. A walk might not always yield this. Hence I recommend the use of hacks like an Isolation Tank or just plain Meditation. For those interested in Isolation Tanks I wrote a piece here: http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/floatation-tank-isolation-tanks/ http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/float... - a truly hackers hack!
- danieltillett 13y ago
  Having a shower is almost as good - lots of white noise and shower water is the touch equivalent of white noise. Close your eyes and with only the smell and taste of warm water you are in a el cheapo isolation tank.
  - digitalengineer 13y ago
    Specific music like DJ Armin van Buuren's A State of Trance helps me. There are lyrics but you don't actually have to listen to the words, they sort of blend in the music. It's, well, a state of trance. http://www.538.nl/programma/37/a-state-of-trance/gemist/detail/17309/a-state-of-trance http://www.538.nl/programma/37/a-state-of-trance/gemist/deta...
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    Works for me tremendously well, and that's why few years ago I bought a waterproof notepad and take it with me to the shower. I do that often when I'm confused or out of ideas how to continue something. Actually, the best public talks I gave were all designed in the shower ;).
Jare 13y ago
Brainstorming is a way to explore ideas, not create them.
- JulianMorrison 13y ago
  I think the fundamental mistake in brainstorming is thinking that out-there ideas are a good approach. And that comes from underestimating the size of idea-space. Exploring idea-space without a map doesn't break you out of your own limitations, because combinations are infinite but your own mind is not. So you flail generating unworkable ideas within the box rather than hill-climbing towards a workable one that might be out of the box. What is missing is a heuristic. Like, nobody would expect an AI to generate good ideas by throwing random numbers in the air. They would demand to see some heuristic for iterative improvement.
  - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
    Yeah it can be like that. But also its a time for everybody to throw out the ideas they already had, but haven't shared.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- kzrdude 13y ago
  Maybe its function is social rather than creative -- simply giving permission to throw anything out there.
Springtime 13y ago
John Cleese made a brilliant talk some time back about stimulating creativity (actually more about using such time more effectively) [1]. The talk highlighted various practical concepts he found useful for entering into a better creative, or 'open', mode. Well worth watching for those interested, and touched on a few of the points highlighted by Walsh. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
stefanix 13y ago
All of the above is easy to understand when you think of creativity as unconscious problem solving. Also John Cleese has a great talk about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU5x1Ea7NjQ
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- exodust 13y ago
  Yeah I dunno, it's a long video. Is there a transcript? I can't listen to Cleese for more than the average length of a comedy sketch. As for creativity not being a team sport, and brainstorming being "terrible", I disagree. Creative ideas need organised foundations, and brainstorming can solve problems for a team to action and expand creative ideas. The band jamming in the garage, is their musical brainstorming so terrible? "Creativity" is such a loose word. As for what it even is, I lean towards the theory I read somewhere of it being about "discovery" rather than bringing something new into the world. Creativity is the act of discovering what was already there. Works for me until I change my mind.
  - collyw 13y ago
    My experience of brainstorming is that everyone comes up with a crap idea (a couple of people will probably come up with the same idea). I can see why some are crap, and can't see why some others are. I have an OK idea, I can see is better than the crap ones. The loud people get hooked on one of the crap ideas and don't listen / or bother to comprehend why your idea may be better, they are too busy elaborating on of their crap one. My best ideas come at unusual times. Staring into space. Or Riding my bike. Crap idea wins.
XorNot 13y ago
Have to agree with this. Lately I've noticed that the best thinking on ideas I do is about 60 minutes after I leave some group collaborative session for generating ideas. Hence a flurry of emails and actual forward progress afterwards.

midas007 13y ago

Try out concepts as quickly and cheaply as possible. It's hard to know what works without real experiments, because idea guys think they've found the Fountain of Youth when they've just inspired people with charismatic snakeoil. Try something, anything already.

michaelwww 13y ago

Sh*t ads swoop in while reading, which always in my mind degrades the trustworthiness of the content and causes me to look for an escape out.

gphilip 13y ago
The interview is on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMvqkrQkYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMvqkrQkYQ . I didn't see any ads, probably because of AdBlock.
gagege 13y ago
Also, when you hover over the 'X' on the ad, the black 'x' swoops away and is replaced with a red 'x'. Ridiculous.
- michaelwww 13y ago
  Ain't nobody got time for dat! Look you either got time to tell me something or sell me something but not both.

axefrog 13y ago

I actually find brainstorming a great way to refine existing ideas I've come up with but for which I don't have a clear picture of the details. Granted, it's something I'll do by myself and come back to it over time until I feel like I finally have clarity of purpose and implementation, but it is still a case of sitting there just dumping out a huge bullet point list of ideas and refinements as I think about the idea. Not only that, but often it also helps me expand the idea in directions I hadn't thought of, and sometimes pivot the idea into something even better.

gphilip 13y ago
The professor's point is about group brainstorming, not individual brainstorming. Indeed, what he says in the context of brainstorming (see around 13:00 in the interview) supports individual intellectual effort as a better way to come up with good ideas.

DigitalSea 13y ago

I think sometimes you can strike gold with a good brainstorming session, but it is a rare occurrence. But I do agree forcing out ideas without much thought and in usually limited amounts of time can result in some horribly uncreative ideas. You can't force an idea, they just come and history has proven you come up with creative solutions and ideas to things when you try and fail, sometimes hundreds and thousands of times. Do you think Thomas Edison invented the light-bulb right away? He failed multiple times, he didn't succeed the first time he created something. In-fact, I am fairly certain although nobody knows the exact figure, but it was over 1000 attempts. The difference between a good idea and a bad one is experimentation and the execution of said idea. Once you have the initial idea, it never hurts to have a post-idea brainstorm to help further refine the idea. Conception should be natural, but getting multiple people involved to refine the core idea I think is still a great way to help a great idea even better as you get more than one angle you should approach it from. Don't be confused here, this is a different kind of brainstorm, not an ideation brainstorm like the article touches upon. Great article that I think some companies who insist on brainstorming should read before they decide to pull an all day brainstorming session that will ultimately result in most likely nothing substantial or worthwhile.

Ygg2 13y ago
Thomas Edison didn't invent lightbulb, per se. He improved existing designs to make it usable.
- zimpenfish 13y ago
  He did a lot of "improving" "existing designs". Although nowadays we call it "being a filthy thieving bastard".
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    Basically he was a more dastardly Steve Jobs.
    - JoeAltmaier 13y ago

danieltillett 13y ago

I have found that brainstorming is great for getting a really good handle on the problem. Once I know exactly what the problem is with all the associated issues then I can start to think about the best solution. Often I just let the problem ferment in the background and the solution pops up when I am doing something unrelated.

Aloha 13y ago

Brainstorming is where the initial kernel of good ideas comes from though, you take something from person A/B/C and combine it with your own - and that synergy is the source of good ideas.

jahaja 13y ago

What I think often happens in a culture where group brainstorming is common is that the few meeting specialist, often the gregarious managers, is the ones leading the meetings and is in the end labeled as the creative ones. In the end people will start to expect that these people will make the suggestions and the others will just give feedback.

bthornbury 13y ago

I had always noticed that I never came up with any good ideas during a brainstorm session. I also worried that this made me seem unintelligent to my peers so I would spend a lot of time before or after the session creating and refining my ideas to compensate. I'm glad to know I've been going about it effectively.

briantakita 13y ago

I have grown as a programmer since I started working from home with real autonomy. The software created has, by far, been my best. I'm also productively creating features, architecting the system, etc. It feels great! I'm healthier. I eat better. I exercise regularly. I'm able to take naps when I need one. I can meditate or zone out as needed. I feel focused. There's less need to appease peers on a day to day basis. I can have streams of thought without having to communicate them. I can then reflect on these thoughts & communicate a coherent story when I am ready.

coldcode 13y ago

Counter example: http://www.slashfilm.com/trivia-cafe-pixar-bugs-life-monsters-finding-nemo-walle-shuts/ http://www.slashfilm.com/trivia-cafe-pixar-bugs-life-monster...

briantakita 13y ago

"What's the value of trashing your talk" It also causes your idea to evolve or die.

ibstudios 13y ago

If people did not have egos then brainstorming would work fine. I find it is hard to be creative on the spot. I do like meetings that discuss a range of preconceived ideas.

quarterwave 13y ago

Does cathedral v. bazaar also apply to creativity? Cathedral creativity = "divine spark" of the individual. Bazaar = small/random steps shaped by the evolutionary processes of fork, commit, & pull.

duncanawoods 13y ago

If you generalise the whole world of ideas and problem solving to the word "creativity" then I have no idea what conclusions you can make. There are a great many types of idea generation to solve unrelated classes of problem. Brain-storming is most definitely a valuable tool for some but not all situations. i) discover what colleagues know about the issues ii) widen options beyond what you are immediately aware iii) make connections between different topics iv) experience explaining and talking about a problem v) get a feel of how emotionally invested colleagues are in particular decisions vi) spot bogus assumptions and false premises etc. What's the alternative suggestion, nobody works together? This type of article plays to the seductive developer trap that you can to put your head down and work on problems in isolation. Its fun and optimal for small projects but it doesn't scale. You can only build garden sheds, you will never build cathedrals. Whiteboards rock.

vortmeester 13y ago
All of your points are sound. But notice what's not on your list: generating new ideas, the ostensible goal of many brainstorming sessions. From what I've read elsewhere, the "alternative suggestion" that you asked for is actually a two step process: (1) Everyone, working alone, comes up with as many new ideas as they can, writing them down. It's best if you write down some crazy ones too. (2) Everyone comes together to discuss all the ideas on all the lists, in a more classic brainstorming format. Here is where your points apply. The reason for doing it this way is that people universally self censor in groups, often without knowing it, and don't contribute ideas that are too far outside the previous consensus. By taking off the immediate social pressure during ideation, you get a wider range of ideas that is more likely to contain useful new ones. Edit: I'd forgotten where I got this, until another comment mentioned Quiet by Susan Cain.

bildung 13y ago

Using brainstorming in a business context is also problematic from a social psychological point of view: For brainstorming to work as planned (collecting lots of different ideas, every idea including the quirky ones count are valid at this stage, ideas only get filtered after the brainstorming session ends), certain criteria have to be met by the group doing the session. If the boss or a potentially competing colleague is around, most people won't brainstorm freely, even though the moderator says it's ok to get crazy. For brainstorming to work as intended the group has to be cooperative and without hierarchies (really without, not startuppy without). Otherwise, people will fear the criticism of the others and only speak about the too-dull-to-fail ideas.

duncanawoods 13y ago
You can have hierarchy within an effective team. Its not mutually exclusive in the same way that lack of hierarchy guarantees nothing. Group problem-solving can reveal team problems and help resolve them. If your team is not working well together, you need to fix it ASAP and not avoid the situations where it comes to the fore.
- bildung 13y ago
  > You can have hierarchy within an effective team. Absolutely! I was talking specifically about hierarchiy affecting the brainstoring method. > Group problem-solving can reveal team problems and help resolve them. If your team is not working well together, you need to fix it ASAP and not avoid the situations where it comes to the fore. I have the suspicion we are talking about different things here (me not speaking English natively could also be reason). With brainstorming I meant the specific didactic method used to generate a collection of ideas with as much breadth as possible, specifically including quirky and unusual ideas for a specific class of open questions like finding a new product idea or a name for a new project. This method has a defined process and was subject to a few paedaogical studies. I think what you have in mind is more like collectively trying to solve a specific engineering problem. In a setting like that many aspects of brainstorming methods do not apply, particularly because the problem to be solved is more closed in nature and has a specific class of right solutions. (edit: formatting)

teemo_cute 13y ago

I read the book Quiet by Susan Cain. Brainstorming was likened to as the 'New Group Think' in that book. The three reasons stated for the inefficiency of brainstorming are: (1) Production blocking (Only one person can talk at a time while others listen. Think of a single entry queue.) (2) Evaluation apprehension (Some (or most) people hesitate in presenting their idea because it might be critiqued or ridiculed.) (3) Social Loafing (There are times when members of a group will slack-off because they know other members will take over the work.)

colmanw 13y ago

I disagree with this. I've found that structured brainstorming and collaboration always yield better ideas and results than one person working solo.

gjm11 13y ago
That's the wrong comparison. You want to compare structured brainstorming against all the people who would have been in the brainstorm working solo. Otherwise, all you're finding is that N people are more effective than 1 person. That'll often be true; the question is how to make the best use of those N people, and the claim being made here is that brainstorming is worse than having them work mostly independently.
aet 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-3-5_Brainwriting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6-3-5_Brainwriting

NAFV_P 13y ago

I thought this would be a (common) business oriented (language) presentation, so I was quite surprised (relieved). Recently had a great idea regarding binary search trees, which came to me while felling a (real) tree, odd.

tonyblundell 13y ago

"Brainstorming sessions and equivalent ideation techniques like Creative Problem Solving have an ever-growing body of evidence showing them to be an ineffective way to generate good ideas." Any links?

Flenser 13y ago
Not sure if this is what you're looking for but I just found it an interesting read: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/30/120130fa_fact_lehrer?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/01/30/120130fa_fact_...

Bpal 13y ago

My 2 cents on the topic would be: it takes time for the brain to find a creative solution to tackle the problem, so a person has got to give a thought some time, kind of let it run on the background on its own. I've used this technique a lot of times in my life. If I can't remember where I've put something, I don't try to find it asap. I try to distract myself from the task by anything like reading news, or making a cup of tea or doing some exercises, anything really. It takes considerably less efforts to find the thing or the right solution when I don't feel that it's life or death important. And after the thing or the solution is found, it's really worth of sharing your thought with people as they might help you see some weak sides of the way you are about to take and help with peices of advice. So all in all, the best approach imho is giving a problem some time, no rush, no panic, and then share ideas with people to get the most of it.

3rd3 13y ago

I wonder how brainstorming in a collaborative text editor compares to real-life group brainstorming. In my experience using an EtherPad for brainstorming can be very fruitful because there is an element of both synchronous and asynchronous communitation. All parties can write down their ideas down simultaneously and one can comment very quickly and nonchalantly to other ideas at the same time.

nnq 13y ago

I think a better process than brainstorming would be "idea brewing" (made up future-buzz-word :) ): 1. Making the concoction: tell people about the problem they need to solve and about where to find good infos on it (and hopefully also spark their interest about the problem, otherwise it's pointless), let's say at the start of the week... 2. Brew: just leave people alone for, let's say, a week, so ideas can "ferment" in their heads... 4. Distill: meet and talk with people, have them present and discuss ideas they had and select ("distill") the ones that can be really good, let's say at the end of the week. ...now, I've never tried the process in a formal enough manner to have proof that it works better than anything, else, but according to this guy's theory it should. (now, if you use up the term "idea brewing" a bestseller buzzword-creating management or self-help book, please be a nice chap and give me some credit for it)

jsemrau 13y ago

Brainstorming ins business is like jamming in music. Teams with great synergy can create great results.

mercer 13y ago

What fascinates me is that I learned about the ineffectiveness (in general) of brainstorming back in my first year of Communication Science, which was at least six years ago, and yet everyone around me still brainstorms all the time. Why do businesses not take this research to heart?

joerich 13y ago

I think brainstorming has demonstrated that is useful, I believe in teamwork. The key is not the brainstorming but the brainstormers or teamworkers