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I think Turkey has a lot more complex issues before they can be seriously considered as a EU candidate: - Occupation of Cyprus (EU member state) populated most

by hospes 13y ago

I think Turkey has a lot more complex issues before they can be seriously considered as a EU candidate: - Occupation of Cyprus (EU member state) populated mostly by Greeks (Greece is EU member as well) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus) - Armenian Genocide of 1915. 1.5 million Armenians were killed by Turkish government, because of being Christians. 21 Countries and 43 U.S. states have recognized the Armenian Genocide. Turkey denies the Armenian Genocide. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide) They constantly suppress rights of Kurds.

egeozcan 13y ago
Yes, no other European country has any similar issues. Greece should close its borders immediately to prevent us barbarians from entering the EU again! Seriously, I agree that Turkey needs to do a lot to rise up to the European standards but I don't think it helps the conversation to bring these sensitive issues up every time you see the words EU and Turkey in the same sentence. edit: Dear down-voters, I understand your sensitivity on the issue but please try to understand what I'm arguing against. I actually accept the Armenian Genocide, and support Kurdish rights, and the rights of any other minorities. What I'm arguing against is this continuous flame-war. See my other comments on those issues if you challenge my honesty. Thanks.
- mercurial 13y ago
  Many other countries had or still have difficulty coming to terms with their past: France until relatively recently with its colonial past, the UK (or so it seems seen from continental Europe), Japan with its numerous warcrimes during WWII, Algeria, or even the US. I can understand why repetitive, double-standard bashing would become tedious after a short while.
- stevoo 13y ago
  The problem with this sensitive issues is that they are still un-resolved. Unfortunately your goverment does not want to do anything about them and keep on doing what they fucking want. When Erdogan steps down, and hopefully a more civilized, non-military person takes over then nothing will change. In the mean time, Kurds are still gonna suffer, Cyprus will still be divide in half, and everything else that they keep on doing.
  - egeozcan 13y ago
    As I said, every country has issues. A never-ending flame-war (which continues with someone mentioning Macedonians, you mentioning Cyprus, someone mentioning the massacre of Turkish in Cyprus, you mentioning the massacre of Greeks in Cyprus and so on; you know the drill - and please don't keep commenting on these, everyone can Google them) doesn't help anyone. We as regular citizens just increase tension between ourselves. I have Greek relatives too like a lot of people whose ancestors have been in İstanbul for many centuries. I love Greece like many others. Please stop making these issues a campaign against Turkey and the Turkish people.
beyti 13y ago
I think, one should at least read the paper before sharing. Just to add another perspective to whom read yours comment: -So called "Armenian Genocide" is not acclaimed by Turkey and the allegations imply the predecessor of Turkey, the Ottoman Empire. Only then, even if you accept this as a genocide, you should at least consider removal of Germany as a member from EU. Quote from the link you provided: "and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust" Holocaust (which is definitely not just an allegation): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
- LunaSea 13y ago
  I don't think that the Armenian Genocide is an allegation and the fact that you put it between quotes just makes your "perspective" seem biased. The issue itself is not only about the genocide / the crimes against humanity but also how the country handled it after. In the case of Germany, since you brought it up, they fully recognise their deeds and don't try to deny it among other things. This is of course only step one and Turkey hasn't event reached it.
- joyofdata 13y ago
  The denial is the problem - the fact that people who do not live anymore committed a genocide is certainly nothing that people living now should be held responsible for. But a nation has to embrace its history even if it was a predecessing state - the Third Reich is different from today's Germany as much as Turkey is different from the Ottoman Empire. If you deny Holocaust publicly in Germany you are in serious legal trouble - but in Turkey it is the opposite - you are in trouble when you publicly claim that a genocide on Turkey's terrain took place.
  - sentenza 13y ago
    This is a problem with the Kemalistic approach to history and Turkey needs to fix it fast, because it poisons self-perspective. I distinctly remember one day back when I was in school (in Germany), when a Turkish student stood up during a history lesson and declared that the Kurdish question was "bullshit". He went as far as to call in question the existence of the Kurds! The Armenian Genocide was not part of the curriculum back then, but I wonder what would have happened...

by hospes 13y ago

egeozcan 13y ago

Yes, no other European country has any similar issues. Greece should close its borders immediately to prevent us barbarians from entering the EU again! Seriously, I agree that Turkey needs to do a lot to rise up to the European standards but I don't think it helps the conversation to bring these sensitive issues up every time you see the words EU and Turkey in the same sentence. edit: Dear down-voters, I understand your sensitivity on the issue but please try to understand what I'm arguing against. I actually accept the Armenian Genocide, and support Kurdish rights, and the rights of any other minorities. What I'm arguing against is this continuous flame-war. See my other comments on those issues if you challenge my honesty. Thanks.

mercurial 13y ago
Many other countries had or still have difficulty coming to terms with their past: France until relatively recently with its colonial past, the UK (or so it seems seen from continental Europe), Japan with its numerous warcrimes during WWII, Algeria, or even the US. I can understand why repetitive, double-standard bashing would become tedious after a short while.
stevoo 13y ago
The problem with this sensitive issues is that they are still un-resolved. Unfortunately your goverment does not want to do anything about them and keep on doing what they fucking want. When Erdogan steps down, and hopefully a more civilized, non-military person takes over then nothing will change. In the mean time, Kurds are still gonna suffer, Cyprus will still be divide in half, and everything else that they keep on doing.
- egeozcan 13y ago
  As I said, every country has issues. A never-ending flame-war (which continues with someone mentioning Macedonians, you mentioning Cyprus, someone mentioning the massacre of Turkish in Cyprus, you mentioning the massacre of Greeks in Cyprus and so on; you know the drill - and please don't keep commenting on these, everyone can Google them) doesn't help anyone. We as regular citizens just increase tension between ourselves. I have Greek relatives too like a lot of people whose ancestors have been in İstanbul for many centuries. I love Greece like many others. Please stop making these issues a campaign against Turkey and the Turkish people.

beyti 13y ago

I think, one should at least read the paper before sharing. Just to add another perspective to whom read yours comment: -So called "Armenian Genocide" is not acclaimed by Turkey and the allegations imply the predecessor of Turkey, the Ottoman Empire. Only then, even if you accept this as a genocide, you should at least consider removal of Germany as a member from EU. Quote from the link you provided: "and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust" Holocaust (which is definitely not just an allegation): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

LunaSea 13y ago
I don't think that the Armenian Genocide is an allegation and the fact that you put it between quotes just makes your "perspective" seem biased. The issue itself is not only about the genocide / the crimes against humanity but also how the country handled it after. In the case of Germany, since you brought it up, they fully recognise their deeds and don't try to deny it among other things. This is of course only step one and Turkey hasn't event reached it.
joyofdata 13y ago
The denial is the problem - the fact that people who do not live anymore committed a genocide is certainly nothing that people living now should be held responsible for. But a nation has to embrace its history even if it was a predecessing state - the Third Reich is different from today's Germany as much as Turkey is different from the Ottoman Empire. If you deny Holocaust publicly in Germany you are in serious legal trouble - but in Turkey it is the opposite - you are in trouble when you publicly claim that a genocide on Turkey's terrain took place.
- sentenza 13y ago
  This is a problem with the Kemalistic approach to history and Turkey needs to fix it fast, because it poisons self-perspective. I distinctly remember one day back when I was in school (in Germany), when a Turkish student stood up during a history lesson and declared that the Kurdish question was "bullshit". He went as far as to call in question the existence of the Kurds! The Armenian Genocide was not part of the curriculum back then, but I wonder what would have happened...