5 ms·

It's hard to draw correlation between someone captured in iran and the many convicts in solitary confinement. Prisoners aren't just put into solitary for any ar

It's hard to draw correlation between someone captured in iran and the many convicts in solitary confinement. Prisoners aren't just put into solitary for any arbitrary reason, many times it's due to a consistent history of violence outside and inside the prison system. While a woman and her husband getting nabbed is a completely different situation. In any case, it seems obvious that solitary will affect mental health. But what do we do for consistently violent offenders? Clearly they do not function in general population. Do they get a solitary buddy to talk to for a few hours a day?

ekianjo 13y ago
Maybe some kind of intranet access to chat with other prisoners locally ? It does not replace human contact, but it can bring some benefits nonetheless to make one feel less lonely.
moxie 13y ago
Prisoners in the USA are, in fact, put into solitary for some pretty arbitrary reasons, including the types of books they read. You might find this article by Shane Bauer, one of the hostages held by Iran, interesting: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/10/solitary-confinement-shane-bauer http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/10/solitary-confine...
- brownbat 13y ago
  > Prisoners in the USA are, in fact, put into solitary for some pretty arbitrary reasons, Sometimes overused isn't sufficient. So long as solitary is ever used to prevent violence, it seems like a necessary tool. I'm all for more oversight. Faster appeals for enhanced punishment and vastly greater funding for public defenders would be a great start. Greater phone privileges, standards for minimum cell conditions, all of these. Some prisoners can't be put in rooms with other people without constant supervision though. Some will smash anything breakable, others will begin any meetings with female defense attorneys by attempting to masturbate against their leg. Defecating around others is fairly popular. Most of these inmates need treatment, sure, but many refuse. (Courts have ruled that you can't forcibly medicate unless it's a medical necessity.) Insisting every prisoner mingle with the general population is not the solution here. It would not only be unworkable, it would endanger the lives of both the mentally ill and other inmates.
- zmitri 13y ago
  I remember seeing that video and balking - even reading Machiavelli's the Prince can get you thrown in solitary under the pretense you are gang affiliated. If you're interested in the prison industrial complex, the very same Shane Bauer is using my site, Beacon, to crowdfund an entire year of in depth, independent, and ad-free reporting on the prison system in America. http://www.beaconreader.com/projects/the-prison-problem http://www.beaconreader.com/projects/the-prison-problem You'll directly impact his ability to produce original long form pieces.
- SyneRyder 13y ago
  And there was recently a story of a "good samaritan" in San Francisco who helped an injured person on the street and called 911, and ended up in solitary by the end of the night: https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/ https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/
- krlee 13y ago
  If you want to criticize Pennington's placement in Security Housing, fine. But don't pretend that he's just an innocent leftist being persecuted by the Man. He's a gang member. And his gang's black Marxist politics don't make it any less violent. http://motherjones.com/documents/458735-pennington-return-to-order-to-show-cause http://motherjones.com/documents/458735-pennington-return-to... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Guerilla_Family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Guerilla_Family
brownbat 13y ago
Agreed. What do we do with violent schizophrenics, the Michael Owen Perrys, the Charles Bronsons? The groups arguing for reform respond that solitary is rarely used for violent criminals, and more often used for other rule infractions: http://www.justicefellowship.org/solitary-confinement http://www.justicefellowship.org/solitary-confinement https://afsc.org/resource/solitary-confinement-facts https://afsc.org/resource/solitary-confinement-facts I'm not sure that answers the question though. In absence of solitary, what measures are appropriate to curtail violence, or to enforce prison rules? Maybe there's a middle solution, where more oversight can be used to prevent its overuse? But it doesn't seem like there are many alternatives to control the behavior of someone who is already confined.
- clamprecht 13y ago
  You said Charles Bronson, but did you mean Charles Manson?
  - brownbat 13y ago
    No, I meant the famously violent prisoner, trying to use a US and non-US example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson_(prisoner) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson_(prisoner) Not the star of Death Wish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson Sorry, I can see where that would have been confusing. Apparently Charles Manson has been placed in solitary for debatable reasons: http://mansondirect.com/solitary-confinement.html http://mansondirect.com/solitary-confinement.html
    - clamprecht 13y ago
      Interesting, thanks!
- lhc- 13y ago
  How about send them to a psychiatric hospital which is equipped to deal with their situation, rather than locking them in a box? If someone is so mentally unstable that they cant handle the human contact of prison gen pop, maybe a psychiatric hospital is where they actually belong.
watwut 13y ago
What other western countries do with them? It is an honest questions, they have neither solitary nor capital punishment. At minimum, I guess you can keep them separated without turning off every single possible sensory inputs. E.g., let them know what time it is and allow turn on/off freaking light. While you are at it, allow them listen to music, read books, watch movies and give them access to paper and pen. The big problem is not only that they are isolated. It is also almost complete turn off of all sensory inputs. If they need to be away from others, allow them at least phone with people, either with each others or with outside word. Another thing to do would be to reserve that treatment only for really dangerous people. Do not send them inmates that only annoyed someone, broke some minor rule or insist on something you do not want to give them. Do not send there non-dangerous inmates for "their own protection" put then somewhere where they can be in touch with non-dangerous inmates instead. Third, conditions in prison have direct impact on how badly dangerous inmates they generate. Maybe there could be something done about those too?

ekianjo 13y ago

Maybe some kind of intranet access to chat with other prisoners locally ? It does not replace human contact, but it can bring some benefits nonetheless to make one feel less lonely.

moxie 13y ago

Prisoners in the USA are, in fact, put into solitary for some pretty arbitrary reasons, including the types of books they read. You might find this article by Shane Bauer, one of the hostages held by Iran, interesting: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/10/solitary-confinement-shane-bauer http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/10/solitary-confine...

brownbat 13y ago
> Prisoners in the USA are, in fact, put into solitary for some pretty arbitrary reasons, Sometimes overused isn't sufficient. So long as solitary is ever used to prevent violence, it seems like a necessary tool. I'm all for more oversight. Faster appeals for enhanced punishment and vastly greater funding for public defenders would be a great start. Greater phone privileges, standards for minimum cell conditions, all of these. Some prisoners can't be put in rooms with other people without constant supervision though. Some will smash anything breakable, others will begin any meetings with female defense attorneys by attempting to masturbate against their leg. Defecating around others is fairly popular. Most of these inmates need treatment, sure, but many refuse. (Courts have ruled that you can't forcibly medicate unless it's a medical necessity.) Insisting every prisoner mingle with the general population is not the solution here. It would not only be unworkable, it would endanger the lives of both the mentally ill and other inmates.
zmitri 13y ago
I remember seeing that video and balking - even reading Machiavelli's the Prince can get you thrown in solitary under the pretense you are gang affiliated. If you're interested in the prison industrial complex, the very same Shane Bauer is using my site, Beacon, to crowdfund an entire year of in depth, independent, and ad-free reporting on the prison system in America. http://www.beaconreader.com/projects/the-prison-problem http://www.beaconreader.com/projects/the-prison-problem You'll directly impact his ability to produce original long form pieces.
SyneRyder 13y ago
And there was recently a story of a "good samaritan" in San Francisco who helped an injured person on the street and called 911, and ended up in solitary by the end of the night: https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/ https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/
krlee 13y ago
If you want to criticize Pennington's placement in Security Housing, fine. But don't pretend that he's just an innocent leftist being persecuted by the Man. He's a gang member. And his gang's black Marxist politics don't make it any less violent. http://motherjones.com/documents/458735-pennington-return-to-order-to-show-cause http://motherjones.com/documents/458735-pennington-return-to... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Guerilla_Family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Guerilla_Family

brownbat 13y ago

Agreed. What do we do with violent schizophrenics, the Michael Owen Perrys, the Charles Bronsons? The groups arguing for reform respond that solitary is rarely used for violent criminals, and more often used for other rule infractions: http://www.justicefellowship.org/solitary-confinement http://www.justicefellowship.org/solitary-confinement https://afsc.org/resource/solitary-confinement-facts https://afsc.org/resource/solitary-confinement-facts I'm not sure that answers the question though. In absence of solitary, what measures are appropriate to curtail violence, or to enforce prison rules? Maybe there's a middle solution, where more oversight can be used to prevent its overuse? But it doesn't seem like there are many alternatives to control the behavior of someone who is already confined.

clamprecht 13y ago
You said Charles Bronson, but did you mean Charles Manson?
- brownbat 13y ago
  No, I meant the famously violent prisoner, trying to use a US and non-US example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson_(prisoner) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson_(prisoner) Not the star of Death Wish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson Sorry, I can see where that would have been confusing. Apparently Charles Manson has been placed in solitary for debatable reasons: http://mansondirect.com/solitary-confinement.html http://mansondirect.com/solitary-confinement.html
  - clamprecht 13y ago
    Interesting, thanks!
lhc- 13y ago
How about send them to a psychiatric hospital which is equipped to deal with their situation, rather than locking them in a box? If someone is so mentally unstable that they cant handle the human contact of prison gen pop, maybe a psychiatric hospital is where they actually belong.

watwut 13y ago

What other western countries do with them? It is an honest questions, they have neither solitary nor capital punishment. At minimum, I guess you can keep them separated without turning off every single possible sensory inputs. E.g., let them know what time it is and allow turn on/off freaking light. While you are at it, allow them listen to music, read books, watch movies and give them access to paper and pen. The big problem is not only that they are isolated. It is also almost complete turn off of all sensory inputs. If they need to be away from others, allow them at least phone with people, either with each others or with outside word. Another thing to do would be to reserve that treatment only for really dangerous people. Do not send them inmates that only annoyed someone, broke some minor rule or insist on something you do not want to give them. Do not send there non-dangerous inmates for "their own protection" put then somewhere where they can be in touch with non-dangerous inmates instead. Third, conditions in prison have direct impact on how badly dangerous inmates they generate. Maybe there could be something done about those too?