4 ms·

This has been known and discussed for 50years. Country first becomes developed, birth rates drop as women get a chance at education and careers. A generation

This has been known and discussed for 50years. Country first becomes developed, birth rates drop as women get a chance at education and careers. A generation or two later they get enough social care, maternity rights etc and birth rates rise again. If you ignore the effects of immigration you can plot countries especially in europe by birth-rate to years since they became 'developed' very accurately

byrneseyeview 17y ago
What is "social care"? What are "maternity rights"? And how many women in the workforce had both in 1959? I think it might have been predicted then, but not known.
- yhgtgygv 17y ago
  That's the point, in the 50s women could work but didn't have child care = drop in birth rate. In the 70s, child care + maternity rights = rise in birth rate. You can plot it for scandinavia, Holland, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece. - Same curve just a timeshift as to which point in the progress they are
  - byrneseyeview 17y ago
    So how have we spent fifty years talking about a trend that started in the 70's?
  - byrneseyeview 17y ago
    And I am still not sure what "maternity rights" are. I'm pretty sure no civilization has lasted longer than a generation while depriving everyone of the right to have kids, but I'm also pretty sure it's not a "right".
    - yhgtgygv 17y ago
      Sorry thought you were being ironic! Maternity rights = government/employment things to do with having a baby. eg. A right to a certain length of time off work after the baby is born, a right to free/subsidized childcare, rights not to be discriminated against at work. etc.
      - RK 17y ago
        I think that must be a British term.
      - byrneseyeview 17y ago
        I was being slightly ironic. It's kind of funny that you would credit maternity leave policies and high transfer payemnts for raising fertility. Most of the liberals I know are effectively sterile; my conservative friends tend to have kids early and crank 'em out. It seems like some people are in favor of parenthood, in theory, and others are going to do whatever it takes in practice to have the number of kids they want. Guess which group claims to be more concerned about "Maternity rights!" I think that's what we're seeing here. Hispanic Catholics, ultra-Orthodox Jews, Neo-Victorians (http://web.archive.org/web/20070714214937/http://www.nyobserver.com/print/55828/full http://web.archive.org/web/20070714214937/http://www.nyobser...), and Mormons are all having lots of kids; secular people and classic WASPs aren't. Which makes the latter groups smaller and less relevant over time.
biohacker42 17y ago
Sure, but shouldn't we also factor in evolution? We can think of voluntary birth control as a virus that impacts fecundity.

byrneseyeview 17y ago

What is "social care"? What are "maternity rights"? And how many women in the workforce had both in 1959? I think it might have been predicted then, but not known.

yhgtgygv 17y ago
That's the point, in the 50s women could work but didn't have child care = drop in birth rate. In the 70s, child care + maternity rights = rise in birth rate. You can plot it for scandinavia, Holland, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece. - Same curve just a timeshift as to which point in the progress they are
- byrneseyeview 17y ago
  So how have we spent fifty years talking about a trend that started in the 70's?
- byrneseyeview 17y ago
  And I am still not sure what "maternity rights" are. I'm pretty sure no civilization has lasted longer than a generation while depriving everyone of the right to have kids, but I'm also pretty sure it's not a "right".
  - yhgtgygv 17y ago
    Sorry thought you were being ironic! Maternity rights = government/employment things to do with having a baby. eg. A right to a certain length of time off work after the baby is born, a right to free/subsidized childcare, rights not to be discriminated against at work. etc.
    - RK 17y ago
      I think that must be a British term.
    - byrneseyeview 17y ago
      I was being slightly ironic. It's kind of funny that you would credit maternity leave policies and high transfer payemnts for raising fertility. Most of the liberals I know are effectively sterile; my conservative friends tend to have kids early and crank 'em out. It seems like some people are in favor of parenthood, in theory, and others are going to do whatever it takes in practice to have the number of kids they want. Guess which group claims to be more concerned about "Maternity rights!" I think that's what we're seeing here. Hispanic Catholics, ultra-Orthodox Jews, Neo-Victorians (http://web.archive.org/web/20070714214937/http://www.nyobserver.com/print/55828/full http://web.archive.org/web/20070714214937/http://www.nyobser...), and Mormons are all having lots of kids; secular people and classic WASPs aren't. Which makes the latter groups smaller and less relevant over time.

biohacker42 17y ago

Sure, but shouldn't we also factor in evolution? We can think of voluntary birth control as a virus that impacts fecundity.