5 ms·

> The public transportation in SF (and the larger Bay Area) is a classist, unreliable nightmare. I've never been to California, but used to live next to NYC.

> The public transportation in SF (and the larger Bay Area) is a classist, unreliable nightmare. I've never been to California, but used to live next to NYC. Could you expand on how the transit is 'classist' ? Is it too expensive? Does it not stop at places other than the suburbs?

cyclecount 13y ago
My view is that in any place where public transportation is not ubiquitous, the ridership often comprises the poorest people in the city. Much of the public transportation system is used only by those who cannot afford better means of transportation. In NY, the norm is that everyone from the poorest classes to the upper-middle class use the Subway and buses for their daily commute, to go out at night, to grocery shop, to visit friends. The Subway is utilized by people from all backgrounds. In SF, the buses are dirty and filled with homeless and mentally ill people. Taking a bus home late at night is the plight of the commoners, the poorest class that work in the service industry and can't afford an Uber or taxi. And this class divide is why a BART strike is possible. The worst affected were those who didn't have a car too fall back on, or who couldn't work from home for a few days. If something so critical as the NYC Subway stops functioning for more than a few hours, the MTA provides alternative buses and advance notice. A multi-day complete system outage would impact everyone, not just the poorest people unfortunate enough not to have other options.
- ZanyProgrammer 13y ago
  In my experience, the rush hour commute on BART takes quite a bit of white collar people to/from the Market Street stops. Its just that when the BART strikes happened, a lot of people could work from home or drive or whatever. Imagine being a full time student at SFSU or something coming in from the East Bay.
bane 13y ago
Yes to all the above. Round-trip on the BART from Rockridge to Montgomery St. is almost $8. Let's say you need to drive to the station, now you're paying for parking also (additional $2/day). So you're a minimum waged fry-cook or whatever in SF, you've blown 1/8th of your workday earnings just getting to-from work. You can get the monthly pass ($76.00/mo), but that's a bitter pill to swallow on those wages. Oh, and you might not be able to take it home anyways since it shuts down at midnight, so don't get a job that does dinner service. Also, IIR, bus transfers to the Muni aren't free. In the meanwhile the highly paid dotcommers might even get free company shuttles with wifi. By comparison, a round trip Subway ride in NYC is what, $5? Goes pretty much everywhere, with good service even into lower income areas, transfers to buses are free. So while minimum wage is lower in NYC, it doesn't even kill 1/8th of your workday's pay to get from home to work and back. Because coverage is so good, it's also unlikely that you'll even need a car, so you can save on all that expense: gas, taxes, registration, insurance, etc.
- LeafyGreenbriar 13y ago
  Interesting, the per-ride fair on the subway is cheaper but the monthly pass is actually more expensive at (I think, I don't have one) $130/mo. However, the subway does truly feel like transportation for everyone, and it makes the city feel many times more accessible than SF.
  - msrpotus 13y ago
    It's $112, which works out to roughly 45 rides or 1.5 rides a day. If you're someone working a M-F job and taking the subway there every day, a monthly pass is almost certainly cheaper than pay-per-ride. If you can bike (which I do), though, the calculus quickly changes.
    - ZanyProgrammer 13y ago
      In my experience, taking a bike on BART is a colossal PITA. Caltrain is years ahead.
      - decktech 13y ago
        Taking a bike on the subway is much harder, and usually seen as rude, because our cars are much smaller. Thankfully, our bridges have bike dedicated bike lanes, so taking them on the subway is not necessary. I was astounded when I visited SF, usually seen as much more bike friendly than NY, and I saw that east bay riders still had to rely on the BART to get them into the city. The fare between West Oakland and Embarcadero alone is more than a subway ride.
    - mertd 13y ago
      Also many employers will let you buy it pre-tax. http://web.mta.info/mta/farebenefits.htm http://web.mta.info/mta/farebenefits.htm
- paulbaumgart 13y ago
  FYI: BART doesn't have monthly passes outside of SF city limits, which actually makes your argument stronger.

cyclecount 13y ago

My view is that in any place where public transportation is not ubiquitous, the ridership often comprises the poorest people in the city. Much of the public transportation system is used only by those who cannot afford better means of transportation. In NY, the norm is that everyone from the poorest classes to the upper-middle class use the Subway and buses for their daily commute, to go out at night, to grocery shop, to visit friends. The Subway is utilized by people from all backgrounds. In SF, the buses are dirty and filled with homeless and mentally ill people. Taking a bus home late at night is the plight of the commoners, the poorest class that work in the service industry and can't afford an Uber or taxi. And this class divide is why a BART strike is possible. The worst affected were those who didn't have a car too fall back on, or who couldn't work from home for a few days. If something so critical as the NYC Subway stops functioning for more than a few hours, the MTA provides alternative buses and advance notice. A multi-day complete system outage would impact everyone, not just the poorest people unfortunate enough not to have other options.

ZanyProgrammer 13y ago
In my experience, the rush hour commute on BART takes quite a bit of white collar people to/from the Market Street stops. Its just that when the BART strikes happened, a lot of people could work from home or drive or whatever. Imagine being a full time student at SFSU or something coming in from the East Bay.

bane 13y ago

Yes to all the above. Round-trip on the BART from Rockridge to Montgomery St. is almost $8. Let's say you need to drive to the station, now you're paying for parking also (additional $2/day). So you're a minimum waged fry-cook or whatever in SF, you've blown 1/8th of your workday earnings just getting to-from work. You can get the monthly pass ($76.00/mo), but that's a bitter pill to swallow on those wages. Oh, and you might not be able to take it home anyways since it shuts down at midnight, so don't get a job that does dinner service. Also, IIR, bus transfers to the Muni aren't free. In the meanwhile the highly paid dotcommers might even get free company shuttles with wifi. By comparison, a round trip Subway ride in NYC is what, $5? Goes pretty much everywhere, with good service even into lower income areas, transfers to buses are free. So while minimum wage is lower in NYC, it doesn't even kill 1/8th of your workday's pay to get from home to work and back. Because coverage is so good, it's also unlikely that you'll even need a car, so you can save on all that expense: gas, taxes, registration, insurance, etc.

LeafyGreenbriar 13y ago
Interesting, the per-ride fair on the subway is cheaper but the monthly pass is actually more expensive at (I think, I don't have one) $130/mo. However, the subway does truly feel like transportation for everyone, and it makes the city feel many times more accessible than SF.
- msrpotus 13y ago
  It's $112, which works out to roughly 45 rides or 1.5 rides a day. If you're someone working a M-F job and taking the subway there every day, a monthly pass is almost certainly cheaper than pay-per-ride. If you can bike (which I do), though, the calculus quickly changes.
  - ZanyProgrammer 13y ago
    In my experience, taking a bike on BART is a colossal PITA. Caltrain is years ahead.
    - decktech 13y ago
      Taking a bike on the subway is much harder, and usually seen as rude, because our cars are much smaller. Thankfully, our bridges have bike dedicated bike lanes, so taking them on the subway is not necessary. I was astounded when I visited SF, usually seen as much more bike friendly than NY, and I saw that east bay riders still had to rely on the BART to get them into the city. The fare between West Oakland and Embarcadero alone is more than a subway ride.
  - mertd 13y ago
    Also many employers will let you buy it pre-tax. http://web.mta.info/mta/farebenefits.htm http://web.mta.info/mta/farebenefits.htm
paulbaumgart 13y ago
FYI: BART doesn't have monthly passes outside of SF city limits, which actually makes your argument stronger.