5 ms·

> “Generally, if you are self-made man and earn money, you are looked at with suspicion,” > there’s a deep-rooted feeling that you don’t show that you make mon

> “Generally, if you are self-made man and earn money, you are looked at with suspicion,” > there’s a deep-rooted feeling that you don’t show that you make money > It’s more like, if someone has something I can’t have, I’d rather deprive this person from having it than trying to work hard to get it myself This. A lot of people still don't understand money can me made. They see succesfull men and woman and assume the money must have been stolen instead of made.

hga 13y ago
"They see succesfull men and woman and assume the money must have been stolen instead of made." Well, that's textbook Marxism, strong here in the US, I assume much stronger in France (after all the French Communist Party is still competitive to a fair degree, per Wikipedia was part of the "Plural Left" coalition that held the legislature from 1997–2002). ADDED: and our path is particularly odd there: as has been joked for some time, there is no French word for entrepreneur.
- kungfooguru 13y ago
  Marxism is strong in the US? As a Marxist I can assure you that is not the case at all :P
  - digitalengineer 13y ago
    You should come to Brussels. Barroso used to run the communist party. (no joke).
- camillomiller 13y ago
  That's not Marxism at all, just go read The Capital. It's seminal and extremely important. Communism has nothing to do with it. It's all about a mixture of catholic hypocrisy and envy. Trust me, I'm Italian, I know what I'm talking about.
- jdangu 13y ago
  > ADDED: and our path is particularly odd there: as has been joked for some time, there is no French word for "entrepreneur". A goofy quote from G.W. Bush relaunched by Newsweek some months ago.
existencebox 13y ago
I don't mean to play devils advocate here, but let me apply two other possible interpretations: My statistical prior that someone with money did questionable things to obtain it has only been rising with time as I see increasing evidence of illicit business practices among the highest earners. (everything from insider trading to the more recent wage fixing). Secondly, is it reasonable to assume that one might find distaste for people with money who flaunt it? And that this might cause one to share that distaste for others with money, even if they don't flaunt to such a degree? I realize the latter half is a generalization that can cause problems, I'm just trying to state a rather "human" response. If it is constantly shoved in your face that certain people drive cars worth enough that it could bring your family out of debt for life, you may grow bitter at this. I believe money can be made, I just also believe there are a lot of "bad actors" in the system, for whom it is "stolen" to some degree, and it only seems to be becoming more common.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  You are correct. The part of stolen money would not be a problem if we had a functioning government that actually -you know- prosecuted people, like they did with the savings & loans crisis where more than 1,000 bankers were convicted by the Justice Department.
- crusso 13y ago
  increasing evidence of illicit business practices among the highest earners Corruption is the core problem. I think that worry about corrupt businesses is misplaced when a corrupt government is 10x worse. everything from insider trading There's a good example right there. Congress can inside trade. It's absolutely extraordinarily corrupt. They wrote a law a while back to prevent it when there was some press on it, but then quietly scaled back the restriction. Consider this: Political office holders can lie to us outrageously and never face repercussions besides (perhaps) not being re-elected in a future cycle. You could list case after case of politicians who knowingly made definitive, verifiably false claims that have caused real damages to people. If they were officers of a public company, they would be sued into oblivion. They would be hounded by the Justice Department. But since they're in the political club, they've written the rules so that they can't be held accountable.
analog31 13y ago
In my view it's reasonable to interpret "self made" as meaning that a person made money within a society that provides an elaborate economic infrastructure. I don't know what it's like in France, but here in the states, we have things like a stable currency, public support of education and research, and limitation of liability for shareholders of corporations. And of course if inheritance is involved, then the "self" is a family and not an individual. What it's hard for people to understand is that both "stealing" and "making" are simplistic ideals, and that reality is much more complex for most of us.
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  Let's not forget all those benefits were made possible by the people adding value and selling something (each in their own way, some products, others selling their craft of just their time). This adding of value was then taxed. (I'm not protesting to taxes, just showing all those benefits were made possible by the people and executed by the state).
  - analog31 13y ago
    Yes, definitely. Thanks.

hga 13y ago

"They see succesfull men and woman and assume the money must have been stolen instead of made." Well, that's textbook Marxism, strong here in the US, I assume much stronger in France (after all the French Communist Party is still competitive to a fair degree, per Wikipedia was part of the "Plural Left" coalition that held the legislature from 1997–2002). ADDED: and our path is particularly odd there: as has been joked for some time, there is no French word for entrepreneur.

kungfooguru 13y ago
Marxism is strong in the US? As a Marxist I can assure you that is not the case at all :P
- digitalengineer 13y ago
  You should come to Brussels. Barroso used to run the communist party. (no joke).
camillomiller 13y ago
That's not Marxism at all, just go read The Capital. It's seminal and extremely important. Communism has nothing to do with it. It's all about a mixture of catholic hypocrisy and envy. Trust me, I'm Italian, I know what I'm talking about.
jdangu 13y ago
> ADDED: and our path is particularly odd there: as has been joked for some time, there is no French word for "entrepreneur". A goofy quote from G.W. Bush relaunched by Newsweek some months ago.

existencebox 13y ago

I don't mean to play devils advocate here, but let me apply two other possible interpretations: My statistical prior that someone with money did questionable things to obtain it has only been rising with time as I see increasing evidence of illicit business practices among the highest earners. (everything from insider trading to the more recent wage fixing). Secondly, is it reasonable to assume that one might find distaste for people with money who flaunt it? And that this might cause one to share that distaste for others with money, even if they don't flaunt to such a degree? I realize the latter half is a generalization that can cause problems, I'm just trying to state a rather "human" response. If it is constantly shoved in your face that certain people drive cars worth enough that it could bring your family out of debt for life, you may grow bitter at this. I believe money can be made, I just also believe there are a lot of "bad actors" in the system, for whom it is "stolen" to some degree, and it only seems to be becoming more common.

digitalengineer 13y ago
You are correct. The part of stolen money would not be a problem if we had a functioning government that actually -you know- prosecuted people, like they did with the savings & loans crisis where more than 1,000 bankers were convicted by the Justice Department.
crusso 13y ago
increasing evidence of illicit business practices among the highest earners Corruption is the core problem. I think that worry about corrupt businesses is misplaced when a corrupt government is 10x worse. everything from insider trading There's a good example right there. Congress can inside trade. It's absolutely extraordinarily corrupt. They wrote a law a while back to prevent it when there was some press on it, but then quietly scaled back the restriction. Consider this: Political office holders can lie to us outrageously and never face repercussions besides (perhaps) not being re-elected in a future cycle. You could list case after case of politicians who knowingly made definitive, verifiably false claims that have caused real damages to people. If they were officers of a public company, they would be sued into oblivion. They would be hounded by the Justice Department. But since they're in the political club, they've written the rules so that they can't be held accountable.

analog31 13y ago

In my view it's reasonable to interpret "self made" as meaning that a person made money within a society that provides an elaborate economic infrastructure. I don't know what it's like in France, but here in the states, we have things like a stable currency, public support of education and research, and limitation of liability for shareholders of corporations. And of course if inheritance is involved, then the "self" is a family and not an individual. What it's hard for people to understand is that both "stealing" and "making" are simplistic ideals, and that reality is much more complex for most of us.

digitalengineer 13y ago
Let's not forget all those benefits were made possible by the people adding value and selling something (each in their own way, some products, others selling their craft of just their time). This adding of value was then taxed. (I'm not protesting to taxes, just showing all those benefits were made possible by the people and executed by the state).
- analog31 13y ago
  Yes, definitely. Thanks.