5 ms·

Radios Had 'Like' Buttons Before the Internet Existed

55 points by AndyBaker 13y ago

kyberias 13y ago
What I learned was that radios actually didn't any like buttons. It was just an idea.
- Lilme 13y ago
  Nope, it was a MVP.
aw3c2 13y ago
I dove through the linkfarming: This is repackaged gizmodo content which itself was repackaged from http://www.psmag.com/culture/the-like-button-that-came-before-facebook-55563/ http://www.psmag.com/culture/the-like-button-that-came-befor...
pdevr 13y ago
"Press one button for “no,” another for “yes,” and a third for “present.”" Well, after eight decades, we and our social networks have almost caught up with Dr. Nevil Monroe Hopkins, but are still at least one button short. Edit: Reference: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7453293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7453293
rguldener 13y ago
Would be interesting to know how that worked on a technical side, how did he intend to transmit the information back?
- venti 13y ago
  As far as I can tell, it should have worked like this: The devices would turn on at approx. 3 am and then draw a current from the power outlet. Someone at the power plant would then look at the Watt meter and from the reading they would know what the outcome was.
  - Mister_Snuggles 13y ago
    Yup, that seems to be exactly what it is. I'm consistently amazed at how "high-tech" things from the past worked. Today, nobody would think about drawing off-peak power as a way to cast votes - wasted energy, environmental impact, easier to do it by internet/telephone, etc, would all be good reasons to not do that. But back then, some of those didn't exist (internet, automated telephone polling) and others weren't understood (environmental impact) or didn't have as big of an impact (wasted energy/cost) as they do now. What we managed to come up with when the technology was so primitive is just amazing. And in a hundred years, future generates will say the same about what we currently think of as amazing.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      One interesting aspect of this is how it implicitly assumes that radios are not portable. I'd wager that most radio listeners these days listen on devices that don't draw from mains power (e.g. car radios), and so this wouldn't work at all, even if it was somehow a good idea otherwise to implement this system now (which it clearly is not).
      - Mister_Snuggles 13y ago
        That's another great point. The world was a different place back then and things that made sense in one era don't make sense today, just as things that make sense today probably won't make sense tomorrow.
        mikeash 13y ago
        It also occurs to me that this technique is fundamentally the same as more modern methods for sending data over power lines, such as X10, various telemetry schemes used for monitoring the power company's stuff, or the constant attempts to provide broadband internet over power lines. The difference is that it 1) uses an analog coding scheme that allows data from multiple transmitters to be combined automatically and 2) it operates at an extremely low frequency which avoids interference, passes easily through transformers and the like, and can be received using cheap equipment. I'm also reminded of side channel attacks on power consumption, whereby a computer basically transmits data using the same basic scheme as used here, but much faster, and not intentionally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_analysis All in all this is a crazy scheme, but it's interesting to consider what it's similar to.
venti 13y ago
Here is the original patent from the 1930s: https://www.google.com/patents/US2092120 https://www.google.com/patents/US2092120
SixSigma 13y ago
A good illustration that ideas are all well and good but it is execution that adds value.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
benburton 13y ago
It was a terrible idea to hide the most interesting part of the graphic behind the title like that.
- andrewrice 13y ago
  Link to image: http://d1435t697bgi2o.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/like-button.jpg http://d1435t697bgi2o.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013...
- raldi 13y ago
  Could you post a screenshot? On a mobile device, I don't even see a hint of anything like that.
  - RyJones 13y ago
    I'm using Safari with no plugins or anything. http://imgur.com/R89kxDc http://imgur.com/R89kxDc in fact, it looks the same in chrome on os x
    - TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
      Same in Firefox on OS X
ricardobeat 13y ago
Market research companies have used similar devices since forever, it's how TV and radio broadcasters get their audience ratings in realtime.
plorg 13y ago
The page was causing 100% CPU usage in Chrome for me. Admittedly, this may have been the result of using an adblocker and some aggressive rules or possibly some kludgy userscripts. Anyways, the page was giving console output suggesting that it was trying to use javascript to actively change the layout of the page. Whatever the actual intent, I managed to stop such activity by blocking 'devicepx-jetpack.js' and 'jquery.sticky-kit.min.js', and article site appeared to stay mostly intact.
PavlovsCat 13y ago
> Handy buttons as a part of the standard equipment of receiving sets should put many a counterfeit statesmen and professional hot air artist in his place; and, of course, they should be equally valuable as registers of sober, thoughtful public opinion. And this is precisely why some powerful interests are so afraid of the internet, and of letting it run its course instead of using it to fiddle with people. Here's hoping that these boots actually are made for walking, and that walking is just what they'll do.

55 points by AndyBaker 13y ago

kyberias 13y ago

What I learned was that radios actually didn't any like buttons. It was just an idea.

Lilme 13y ago
Nope, it was a MVP.

aw3c2 13y ago

I dove through the linkfarming: This is repackaged gizmodo content which itself was repackaged from http://www.psmag.com/culture/the-like-button-that-came-before-facebook-55563/ http://www.psmag.com/culture/the-like-button-that-came-befor...

pdevr 13y ago

"Press one button for “no,” another for “yes,” and a third for “present.”" Well, after eight decades, we and our social networks have almost caught up with Dr. Nevil Monroe Hopkins, but are still at least one button short. Edit: Reference: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7453293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7453293

rguldener 13y ago

Would be interesting to know how that worked on a technical side, how did he intend to transmit the information back?

venti 13y ago
As far as I can tell, it should have worked like this: The devices would turn on at approx. 3 am and then draw a current from the power outlet. Someone at the power plant would then look at the Watt meter and from the reading they would know what the outcome was.
- Mister_Snuggles 13y ago
  Yup, that seems to be exactly what it is. I'm consistently amazed at how "high-tech" things from the past worked. Today, nobody would think about drawing off-peak power as a way to cast votes - wasted energy, environmental impact, easier to do it by internet/telephone, etc, would all be good reasons to not do that. But back then, some of those didn't exist (internet, automated telephone polling) and others weren't understood (environmental impact) or didn't have as big of an impact (wasted energy/cost) as they do now. What we managed to come up with when the technology was so primitive is just amazing. And in a hundred years, future generates will say the same about what we currently think of as amazing.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    One interesting aspect of this is how it implicitly assumes that radios are not portable. I'd wager that most radio listeners these days listen on devices that don't draw from mains power (e.g. car radios), and so this wouldn't work at all, even if it was somehow a good idea otherwise to implement this system now (which it clearly is not).
    - Mister_Snuggles 13y ago
      That's another great point. The world was a different place back then and things that made sense in one era don't make sense today, just as things that make sense today probably won't make sense tomorrow.
      - mikeash 13y ago
        It also occurs to me that this technique is fundamentally the same as more modern methods for sending data over power lines, such as X10, various telemetry schemes used for monitoring the power company's stuff, or the constant attempts to provide broadband internet over power lines. The difference is that it 1) uses an analog coding scheme that allows data from multiple transmitters to be combined automatically and 2) it operates at an extremely low frequency which avoids interference, passes easily through transformers and the like, and can be received using cheap equipment. I'm also reminded of side channel attacks on power consumption, whereby a computer basically transmits data using the same basic scheme as used here, but much faster, and not intentionally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_analysis All in all this is a crazy scheme, but it's interesting to consider what it's similar to.

venti 13y ago

Here is the original patent from the 1930s: https://www.google.com/patents/US2092120 https://www.google.com/patents/US2092120

SixSigma 13y ago

A good illustration that ideas are all well and good but it is execution that adds value.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

benburton 13y ago

It was a terrible idea to hide the most interesting part of the graphic behind the title like that.

andrewrice 13y ago
Link to image: http://d1435t697bgi2o.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/like-button.jpg http://d1435t697bgi2o.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013...
raldi 13y ago
Could you post a screenshot? On a mobile device, I don't even see a hint of anything like that.
- RyJones 13y ago
  I'm using Safari with no plugins or anything. http://imgur.com/R89kxDc http://imgur.com/R89kxDc in fact, it looks the same in chrome on os x
  - TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
    Same in Firefox on OS X

ricardobeat 13y ago

Market research companies have used similar devices since forever, it's how TV and radio broadcasters get their audience ratings in realtime.

plorg 13y ago

The page was causing 100% CPU usage in Chrome for me. Admittedly, this may have been the result of using an adblocker and some aggressive rules or possibly some kludgy userscripts. Anyways, the page was giving console output suggesting that it was trying to use javascript to actively change the layout of the page. Whatever the actual intent, I managed to stop such activity by blocking 'devicepx-jetpack.js' and 'jquery.sticky-kit.min.js', and article site appeared to stay mostly intact.

PavlovsCat 13y ago

> Handy buttons as a part of the standard equipment of receiving sets should put many a counterfeit statesmen and professional hot air artist in his place; and, of course, they should be equally valuable as registers of sober, thoughtful public opinion. And this is precisely why some powerful interests are so afraid of the internet, and of letting it run its course instead of using it to fiddle with people. Here's hoping that these boots actually are made for walking, and that walking is just what they'll do.