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Exactly why this situation persists in the age of the WWW is a mystery to me. I could understand expensive course specific texts back in the day, but, nowadays?

Exactly why this situation persists in the age of the WWW is a mystery to me. I could understand expensive course specific texts back in the day, but, nowadays? If I was the boss at a university I would make all teaching staff put all of the content needed to teach their course material online in some wiki of sorts, with credits for researchers and undergraduates if they can add to that body of knowledge. In fact I would make it so that PhD. thesii didn't just sit on some shelf unread, such works would have to go into the body of knowledge created. Within one year something tangible could be created. Clearly it would not be possible to upload those 'Harry Potter' books studied by Media Studies stoodentz, however, for anything science there should be no need to run into copyright problems. With such a system any graduate that had maintained pages or added notable content could put the links on their CV for an employer to read. This could be a fully virtuous circle with better students rather than necessarily wealthier students attracted to the university. From those students there would not be an outflow of money to the textbook-scam-artists (or to the posh restaurants where they wine and dine teaching staff). The business of a university is to teach, not to sell text books.

ronaldx 13y ago
> If I was the boss at a university I would make all teaching staff put all of the content needed to teach their course material online in some wiki of sorts, with credits for researchers and undergraduates if they can add to that body of knowledge. You should understand that you're probably asking for a significant change in contract conditions which gives you Intellectual Property rights over your employee's work. By saying "in some wiki of sorts", you mean that the university would gain the right of distribution in the way that they (commercially) see fit, rather than the author being able to use their own work. Requiring that the work is uploaded in a particular format will also cause untold headaches. My employer insisted that I sign a contract like this (giving up my IP), I refused because it would have caused problems with my other work (I literally could not consider it), and I ended up quitting over this. Textbook authors are generally not scammers. They are people trying to make a living from their expertise - expertise both in their subject and in their ability to communicate, which are skills otherwise undervalued by society. Your beef is with the publishers, not with the content creators who you are punishing here.
- rahimnathwani 13y ago
  In many other lines of work, employee contracts _do_ give the employer IP rights over employees' work. If I write software as part of my work, for which my employer pays me, they get to decide how to treat the IP. Many employment contracts go further, and include IP created outside work but during the term of employment. Some jurisdictions make this more strong transfer invalid/unenforceable. Why does the current system exist as you suggest? I mean, why do teaching employment contracts allow employees to retain IP they create in the course of their employment?
  - ronaldx 13y ago
    You might find it more instructive to ask this question the other way around: Why do tech employees sign contracts that reach beyond the boundaries of legislated human rights? Is there any better indicator of employee exploitation? On reflection, I think the answer to your version of the question is that experienced teachers are expected to bring their teaching resources with them to new employment. Other people's resources are generally just not as useful. Having an employer hold exclusive right to the IP would be counter-productive to industry best practice on this point. But, things are indeed changing in the direction that the grandparent commenter indicates.
    - rahimnathwani 13y ago
      "Other people's resources are generally just not as useful." I wonder whether this is true. I believe that someone else's teaching resources might be harder (i.e. less useful) for a _teacher_. However, I find it hard to believe that teaching resources (like lecture notes or lesson plans) don't vary in quality and that, therefore, the teachers with the worst materials are doing their students a disservice by using the materials which are easiest for them by virtue of being familiar, although better (for the student) alternatives exist. Just use the best ones. There are no unique snowflakes. (BTW I take your point about reversing the question. It's a little tricky to find the 'right' answer for software companies because code within a company is more tightly coupled than teaching resources for different courses are in a school.)
  - 13y ago
abraxasz 13y ago
It seems like this depends on the universities (and maybe also on undergrad vs grad), but I've done my masters, and am currently doing my phd at an Ivy in the US, and I've been pleasantly surprised to find out that we are almost never required to buy any books. Often, the professor uploads a set of very comprehensive notes accumulated over the previous years to complement the notes we take in class. It's happened (three times out of maybe 8 classes) that the professor is writing his own book on the subject, and so is giving us free copies. So instead of requiring books, the professor indicates which books are interesting/useful references on the subject and puts them on reserve in the library for the students of the class. I think it's a good system. One thing though. This is doable in science because, well a theorem is a theorem. But about humanities where you have to study specific texts or corpora? I don't think there's much choice there..
tjl 13y ago
Only part of the business of a university is to teach. For most universities far more time is allocated to research than teaching. At my university, professors split time between teaching, research, and service (where service is things like department chair or serving on a committee). Depending on your position, the breakdown of these varies. So, department chairs do less teaching (or possibly none) because their time is needed for service instead. As others have pointed out, a wiki for any material is kind of a non-starter as it would depend on the IP rights at the university. At mine, all IP is owned by the creator (with the university having non-exclusive rights to use it), with a few exceptions. Most professors I know don't assign their own books. In my department, I only know of one (or two depending on how you count it). The one is a grad course and is really one of the few on the topic (and is actually written by ten different authors, not just the professor). My supervisor assigns his advanced dynamics text for his course, but they're sold through the copy centre (at the standard copy rate) as they're bound photocopies. I think they were under $30 which is far less than alternatives. My university requires that all Master's and Ph.D. theses (not thesii) be made available electronically (as PDFs) as has since 2002. So, they don't just sit on a shelf. So, both my Master's and my Ph.D. thesis are on the web for anyone to download (and I have them linked from my LinkedIn page). Many universities require graduate theses be made available electronically, so I don't see where your issue is with that. I can't see a wiki being any better than a simple search engine for theses. For example, one could have material that fits all over a wiki in one thesis. My Master's research is still being cited by two very disparate disciplines. Both theses of mine are easily found using Google Scholar with appropriate search terms (i.e., ones applicable to the content). My Master's even has two citations just last year. How is one supposed to put links on a CV for pages edited by many authors? I know of no professors who are wined and dined by textbook publishers. I know that publishers send review copies and they do meet with professors, but all the meetings I know of have happened in professors offices or a meeting room.

ronaldx 13y ago

> If I was the boss at a university I would make all teaching staff put all of the content needed to teach their course material online in some wiki of sorts, with credits for researchers and undergraduates if they can add to that body of knowledge. You should understand that you're probably asking for a significant change in contract conditions which gives you Intellectual Property rights over your employee's work. By saying "in some wiki of sorts", you mean that the university would gain the right of distribution in the way that they (commercially) see fit, rather than the author being able to use their own work. Requiring that the work is uploaded in a particular format will also cause untold headaches. My employer insisted that I sign a contract like this (giving up my IP), I refused because it would have caused problems with my other work (I literally could not consider it), and I ended up quitting over this. Textbook authors are generally not scammers. They are people trying to make a living from their expertise - expertise both in their subject and in their ability to communicate, which are skills otherwise undervalued by society. Your beef is with the publishers, not with the content creators who you are punishing here.

rahimnathwani 13y ago
In many other lines of work, employee contracts _do_ give the employer IP rights over employees' work. If I write software as part of my work, for which my employer pays me, they get to decide how to treat the IP. Many employment contracts go further, and include IP created outside work but during the term of employment. Some jurisdictions make this more strong transfer invalid/unenforceable. Why does the current system exist as you suggest? I mean, why do teaching employment contracts allow employees to retain IP they create in the course of their employment?
- ronaldx 13y ago
  You might find it more instructive to ask this question the other way around: Why do tech employees sign contracts that reach beyond the boundaries of legislated human rights? Is there any better indicator of employee exploitation? On reflection, I think the answer to your version of the question is that experienced teachers are expected to bring their teaching resources with them to new employment. Other people's resources are generally just not as useful. Having an employer hold exclusive right to the IP would be counter-productive to industry best practice on this point. But, things are indeed changing in the direction that the grandparent commenter indicates.
  - rahimnathwani 13y ago
    "Other people's resources are generally just not as useful." I wonder whether this is true. I believe that someone else's teaching resources might be harder (i.e. less useful) for a _teacher_. However, I find it hard to believe that teaching resources (like lecture notes or lesson plans) don't vary in quality and that, therefore, the teachers with the worst materials are doing their students a disservice by using the materials which are easiest for them by virtue of being familiar, although better (for the student) alternatives exist. Just use the best ones. There are no unique snowflakes. (BTW I take your point about reversing the question. It's a little tricky to find the 'right' answer for software companies because code within a company is more tightly coupled than teaching resources for different courses are in a school.)
- 13y ago

abraxasz 13y ago

It seems like this depends on the universities (and maybe also on undergrad vs grad), but I've done my masters, and am currently doing my phd at an Ivy in the US, and I've been pleasantly surprised to find out that we are almost never required to buy any books. Often, the professor uploads a set of very comprehensive notes accumulated over the previous years to complement the notes we take in class. It's happened (three times out of maybe 8 classes) that the professor is writing his own book on the subject, and so is giving us free copies. So instead of requiring books, the professor indicates which books are interesting/useful references on the subject and puts them on reserve in the library for the students of the class. I think it's a good system. One thing though. This is doable in science because, well a theorem is a theorem. But about humanities where you have to study specific texts or corpora? I don't think there's much choice there..

tjl 13y ago

Only part of the business of a university is to teach. For most universities far more time is allocated to research than teaching. At my university, professors split time between teaching, research, and service (where service is things like department chair or serving on a committee). Depending on your position, the breakdown of these varies. So, department chairs do less teaching (or possibly none) because their time is needed for service instead. As others have pointed out, a wiki for any material is kind of a non-starter as it would depend on the IP rights at the university. At mine, all IP is owned by the creator (with the university having non-exclusive rights to use it), with a few exceptions. Most professors I know don't assign their own books. In my department, I only know of one (or two depending on how you count it). The one is a grad course and is really one of the few on the topic (and is actually written by ten different authors, not just the professor). My supervisor assigns his advanced dynamics text for his course, but they're sold through the copy centre (at the standard copy rate) as they're bound photocopies. I think they were under $30 which is far less than alternatives. My university requires that all Master's and Ph.D. theses (not thesii) be made available electronically (as PDFs) as has since 2002. So, they don't just sit on a shelf. So, both my Master's and my Ph.D. thesis are on the web for anyone to download (and I have them linked from my LinkedIn page). Many universities require graduate theses be made available electronically, so I don't see where your issue is with that. I can't see a wiki being any better than a simple search engine for theses. For example, one could have material that fits all over a wiki in one thesis. My Master's research is still being cited by two very disparate disciplines. Both theses of mine are easily found using Google Scholar with appropriate search terms (i.e., ones applicable to the content). My Master's even has two citations just last year. How is one supposed to put links on a CV for pages edited by many authors? I know of no professors who are wined and dined by textbook publishers. I know that publishers send review copies and they do meet with professors, but all the meetings I know of have happened in professors offices or a meeting room.