3 ms·

As usual the uptake or not of Linux for this or any other use case will be moderated by quality drivers or the lack thereof.

by hartror 13y ago

thirsteh 13y ago
This assumes the hardware from one ATM to another varies wildly. This is hardly the case. Thus, driver implementation costs are a very small factor, not the primary one. License restrictions are more likely to make them choose something else, like Sony chose FreeBSD for the Playstation. (Again, no need for drivers for many different configurations.)
ars 13y ago
Linux drivers are no longer much a problem, and haven't been for a while. Linux is have trouble shaking off its old reputation though.
- tluyben2 13y ago
  The question is if anyone has gotten their hands on the few different ATM machines hardware-wise and wrote Linux drivers for them. Basically the market for these, magstripe and EVM cards is very much a Windows market => at least most of the US providers of services, backends, software etc for this all are almost entirely Windows based. And therefor the manufacturers, although it would be easy for them, have not much incentive to deliver proper drivers. I'm not saying it's a big problem per-se, but it might make people nervous anyway. They also need to be complaint and that can take long on new software, so they would need to pull in a provider who already has the compliance in some related areas, probably Redhat has and then try to tape on the extra compliance needed for the new software, drivers and whole combination. All in all, it's all very possible, but I think going public with all of this is unfortunately just a trick to get MS to play. I hope it's not as I have always wondered, as a software engineer who created banners, POS systems and information panels (I don't know the proper English jargon for these; I know the Dutch names, but like the panels you see at events, train stations, airports :) why they are not using Linux for everything anyway; everyone always cries about drivers but those have been a non-issue already 10 years ago. 'They are used to writing software on Windows' has also always been a none issue; these apps are complete, fullscreen apps which are the only thing running next to the kernel and a few drivers on these systems. They are almost always completely custom drawn and, like 2D games, that means the difference between Windows and Linux is not really there and hasn't been for many, many years now. You can run SDL straight on the framebuffer and make a tiny Linux distro with your software/drivers to run on it. We sold Linux POS systems over 10 years ago; built on C & Tcl/TK they were faster, easier, cheaper, and nicer than the Windows versions at that time by a long shot. There is 0 reason why you wouldn't do this, but people are ignorant and unfortunately many of these people are coders; like people are stuck on Linux & Mac, a lot of people are stuck on Windows and lose sight of what is better for the customer (over 10 years ago that would have been stability and price; both much better under Linux) while peddling the 'everything is better under Windows'. I would not expect that from smart devs but he, here we go :)
  - Nursie 13y ago
    While the POS and ATM systems themselves often run windows, Linux is quite often already in the picture. That EMV terminal that's talking to the windows host might just be running ARM or MIPS linux. (yeah I work on this stuff...)
    - tluyben2 13y ago
      I work on the card creation/manufacturing (EMV) side and this is good to know; people always send me Windows stuff and while I don't mind I always wonder if there is a sane reason for it (there seems not to be).
      - Nursie 13y ago
        Huh, one of the few parts I've never touched - I've worked on acquirer and issuer systems, retail-level switches, POS payment subsystems and lately embedded reader/terminals, but not on what goes on inside the card itself. I never really wanted to go back into payment systems and had a few years away from them, but it turns out that when you've written an EMV L2 kernel people want to employ you for that sort of stuff again...
  - caf 13y ago
    Well, I reckon that if you're in the market for say 500,000 magstripe readers you're probably in a good position to ask the manufacturer to supply a driver for the OS of your choice.
- kleiba 13y ago
  Plus, ATMs (at least where I live) run on stone-old machine usually which you would expect Linux might even be easier to run on.
- ckaygusu 13y ago
  I can't think of anything in terms of reputation that might hinder this movement. What did you have in mind exactly?

As usual the uptake or not of Linux for this or any other use case will be moderated by quality drivers or the lack thereof.

by hartror 13y ago

As usual the uptake or not of Linux for this or any other use case will be moderated by quality drivers or the lack thereof.

thirsteh 13y ago

This assumes the hardware from one ATM to another varies wildly. This is hardly the case. Thus, driver implementation costs are a very small factor, not the primary one. License restrictions are more likely to make them choose something else, like Sony chose FreeBSD for the Playstation. (Again, no need for drivers for many different configurations.)

ars 13y ago

Linux drivers are no longer much a problem, and haven't been for a while. Linux is have trouble shaking off its old reputation though.

tluyben2 13y ago
The question is if anyone has gotten their hands on the few different ATM machines hardware-wise and wrote Linux drivers for them. Basically the market for these, magstripe and EVM cards is very much a Windows market => at least most of the US providers of services, backends, software etc for this all are almost entirely Windows based. And therefor the manufacturers, although it would be easy for them, have not much incentive to deliver proper drivers. I'm not saying it's a big problem per-se, but it might make people nervous anyway. They also need to be complaint and that can take long on new software, so they would need to pull in a provider who already has the compliance in some related areas, probably Redhat has and then try to tape on the extra compliance needed for the new software, drivers and whole combination. All in all, it's all very possible, but I think going public with all of this is unfortunately just a trick to get MS to play. I hope it's not as I have always wondered, as a software engineer who created banners, POS systems and information panels (I don't know the proper English jargon for these; I know the Dutch names, but like the panels you see at events, train stations, airports :) why they are not using Linux for everything anyway; everyone always cries about drivers but those have been a non-issue already 10 years ago. 'They are used to writing software on Windows' has also always been a none issue; these apps are complete, fullscreen apps which are the only thing running next to the kernel and a few drivers on these systems. They are almost always completely custom drawn and, like 2D games, that means the difference between Windows and Linux is not really there and hasn't been for many, many years now. You can run SDL straight on the framebuffer and make a tiny Linux distro with your software/drivers to run on it. We sold Linux POS systems over 10 years ago; built on C & Tcl/TK they were faster, easier, cheaper, and nicer than the Windows versions at that time by a long shot. There is 0 reason why you wouldn't do this, but people are ignorant and unfortunately many of these people are coders; like people are stuck on Linux & Mac, a lot of people are stuck on Windows and lose sight of what is better for the customer (over 10 years ago that would have been stability and price; both much better under Linux) while peddling the 'everything is better under Windows'. I would not expect that from smart devs but he, here we go :)
- Nursie 13y ago
  While the POS and ATM systems themselves often run windows, Linux is quite often already in the picture. That EMV terminal that's talking to the windows host might just be running ARM or MIPS linux. (yeah I work on this stuff...)
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    I work on the card creation/manufacturing (EMV) side and this is good to know; people always send me Windows stuff and while I don't mind I always wonder if there is a sane reason for it (there seems not to be).
    - Nursie 13y ago
      Huh, one of the few parts I've never touched - I've worked on acquirer and issuer systems, retail-level switches, POS payment subsystems and lately embedded reader/terminals, but not on what goes on inside the card itself. I never really wanted to go back into payment systems and had a few years away from them, but it turns out that when you've written an EMV L2 kernel people want to employ you for that sort of stuff again...
- caf 13y ago
  Well, I reckon that if you're in the market for say 500,000 magstripe readers you're probably in a good position to ask the manufacturer to supply a driver for the OS of your choice.
kleiba 13y ago
Plus, ATMs (at least where I live) run on stone-old machine usually which you would expect Linux might even be easier to run on.
ckaygusu 13y ago
I can't think of anything in terms of reputation that might hinder this movement. What did you have in mind exactly?