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Once you open your self up to all the conceivable permutations of identity, your logic starts to get really hairy. Consider the GenderBread Person: http://itspr

Once you open your self up to all the conceivable permutations of identity, your logic starts to get really hairy. Consider the GenderBread Person: http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Genderbread-2.1.jpg http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/... That shows 8 axises of identity determination, compared to the traditional binary. Does a FTM 2-spirit pansexual want to buy tampons? Beats me but I know women might and men probably don't. Where do you draw the line? FB added, like, a million different options and it seems that there is a new identity every day. There is no clear way to model this data. Some identities are exclusive, some are not, some are contradictory... Whats worse, it seems that many identities are purposefully vague! For example, many people identify as 'queer' yet 'queer' is perhaps the least useful label possible! AFAIK, it paradoxically labels those-who-do-not-want-to-be-labled. I need something that fits into a relational database, is relevant to my work, minimizes the risk that my app will offend somebody... oh and I have to convince my boss that it's worth the investment in time. The best answer I see is an optional "Male, Female or Other." I agree that making the gender field (or any other field) mandatory is a poor idea. Frankly, I'd like to side-step the whole issue by not asking the user at all.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
That people link all sorts of preferences to 'gender' and make charts is not necessarily important to others. Even in a civilized society, I have no obligation to accommodate your fantasies, or even be polite to you. The gender question, I think, is useful only when it is actionable. If it helps to choose an honorific (Mr, Ms etc) then fine, whatever. Probably safer to just leave both out.
- adamwong246 13y ago
  Actually, that's exactly what living in a civilized society means- being polite, to some degree or another. I would also recommend that you not call your users' identities as 'fantasies.' It may not matter to you but it matters to them and you should respect you users if you wish to keep them.
  - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
    It means civil discourse, which gives everybody a voice. It doesn't mean having to pretend everybody is right. It definitely doesn't mean being polite, not by a far margin. I'd be glad to recognize any distinctions that don't require an entirely new dictionary. Especially if they are actionable. Mostly, it'd be nice if folks kept private things private.
    - adamwong246 13y ago
      But these things are not private and they are actionable. And they update the dictionary every year, because language changes. If you dismiss them out of hand, you will lose a lot of opportunity. If greater concern, though, is that your contempt for non-normative identities is rather poorly concealed. Trust me- you do not want to speak to your users as you have spoken to me.
DanBC 13y ago
Your last sentence is the most important. The only reason I can think of to ask the user the question is for equalities monitoring. Why do companies still want this information?

JoeAltmaier 13y ago

That people link all sorts of preferences to 'gender' and make charts is not necessarily important to others. Even in a civilized society, I have no obligation to accommodate your fantasies, or even be polite to you. The gender question, I think, is useful only when it is actionable. If it helps to choose an honorific (Mr, Ms etc) then fine, whatever. Probably safer to just leave both out.

adamwong246 13y ago
Actually, that's exactly what living in a civilized society means- being polite, to some degree or another. I would also recommend that you not call your users' identities as 'fantasies.' It may not matter to you but it matters to them and you should respect you users if you wish to keep them.
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  It means civil discourse, which gives everybody a voice. It doesn't mean having to pretend everybody is right. It definitely doesn't mean being polite, not by a far margin. I'd be glad to recognize any distinctions that don't require an entirely new dictionary. Especially if they are actionable. Mostly, it'd be nice if folks kept private things private.
  - adamwong246 13y ago
    But these things are not private and they are actionable. And they update the dictionary every year, because language changes. If you dismiss them out of hand, you will lose a lot of opportunity. If greater concern, though, is that your contempt for non-normative identities is rather poorly concealed. Trust me- you do not want to speak to your users as you have spoken to me.

DanBC 13y ago

Your last sentence is the most important. The only reason I can think of to ask the user the question is for equalities monitoring. Why do companies still want this information?