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This is exactly why security conscious people don't use flash. Html is supposed to be a document and not an application. We created this Frankenstein with Flash

by leccine 13y ago

This is exactly why security conscious people don't use flash. Html is supposed to be a document and not an application. We created this Frankenstein with Flash, Java and JS to make HTML pages appear other than documents. The net result is that you need to install these plugins otherwise you can't get the full experience. The real question is why do we let people to abuse technology instead of using it well. I have disabled all of these plugins long time ago and also JS runs on very specific websites where it is an absolute must. You could install games through the browser, make it easier but to run through the browser, it is a bad idea.

camus2 13y ago
> why do we let people to abuse technology instead of using it well. Because there is a demand for web based applications,because we cant throw everything in the trash saying we got to start over. Because the web is a way to distribute software with next to 0 cost.
mercer 13y ago
> The real question is why do we let people to abuse technology instead of using it well. I am (still!) amazed by the gap between how I see a computer and how most non-geeks around me do. To them, it's like a set of different, often frustrating tools rather than, well, an amazing piece of technology that can be prodded to do whatever you want (to the point where an iPad with few to no apps can provide them with all they need). To me, there's a joy to finding just the right framework, app, or library that can do what I need done. To the point where I might end up enjoying the process a bit too much and get nothing done. To them, it's all about getting stuff done as soon as possible, with whatever they're familiar with. And since they find computers often quite frustrating, they will abuse the hell out of the little bits they know. And so, in the same way that we would use a lighter to open a bottle if there isn't an opener nearby, they 'abuse' technology by using Excel for everything, or storing their notes in an open notepad window without saving. And as long as that works most of the time, they feel absolutely no incentive to figure out a better way. Until, of course, it all goes wrong. Then they call us to fix it :-).
- nnq 13y ago
  Jobs had his famous 'computers as bicycles for the mind' metaphor (I guess this is the origin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA_jypfKfAA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA_jypfKfAA), and this is how we geeks see them. The problems are that: 1. computers today don't really look or feel like 'bicycles for the mind' to the average joe -- it's our job to make them look like what they really are instead of dressing them in pretty silky dresses (think all the iStuff...) OR, even worse, make them look like appliances (think the iOS devices that feel like a multi-tool, every app isolated by itself and very hard to move data from one to another) OR, even worse, cripple them on purpose (DRM, closed formats that are not cross-applicatin compatible etc.) 2. most people's minds are really bad at 'learning to ride bicycles'... hell, even teaching a human being to properly read and write takes a few good years -- so it's our jobs to make the bicycles easier to ride, but we should not forget the danger here: the way to make a bicycle easier to ride is not to hide that it's a bike! (this is kind of what we do with most of our UI/X paradigms, and it makes it easier for people to use computers as appliances, but much harder for them to realize they are mind-bikes) Now that we have "a computer in everyone's pocket" we should get our heads out of our asses and show people what a computer really is! And about 'using Excel for everything': I'd take this as a good thing! Excel is almost a goddamn programming language after all (and a functional one, btw), and it'as close as most will ever be to real programming.
  - TheZenPsycho 13y ago
    I see this kind of sentiment on Hacker News a lot. I kind of feel like, if you really want to express this thought process, I'd like you to suitably justify that this argument isn't just a smokescreen, disguising your resentment that more people than ever can learn to use and enjoy computers and you're not quite so special anymore. So you make up this story that what they are doing is not really using computers. It's not the same kind of wonderful magic that you can do. And while you say "Now that we have "a computer in everyone's pocket" we should get our heads out of our asses and show people what a computer really is!" Well what if that actually happened! what if computer/coding/programming literacy really did become as widespread as reading,writing and arithmetic. There'd be nothing special about you anymore! So you fight the future. you fight the "Fancy UIs" while saying you're not! Okay maybe none of this applies to YOU specifically. My point is, if you're going to embark along this argument, I think you should really make an effort to prove your true dedication to it. Prove it's not just an expression of a deeper insecurity.
pekk 13y ago
Just using Javascript also makes it the same kind of "frankenstein" - if you are just concerned about code running then Javascript is no better than Flash
larsiusprime 13y ago
OpenFL is not a plugin.
davidgerard 13y ago
>Html is supposed to be a document and not an application. That was TimBL's intention, but that ship sailed in 1995.

by leccine 13y ago

camus2 13y ago

> why do we let people to abuse technology instead of using it well. Because there is a demand for web based applications,because we cant throw everything in the trash saying we got to start over. Because the web is a way to distribute software with next to 0 cost.

mercer 13y ago

> The real question is why do we let people to abuse technology instead of using it well. I am (still!) amazed by the gap between how I see a computer and how most non-geeks around me do. To them, it's like a set of different, often frustrating tools rather than, well, an amazing piece of technology that can be prodded to do whatever you want (to the point where an iPad with few to no apps can provide them with all they need). To me, there's a joy to finding just the right framework, app, or library that can do what I need done. To the point where I might end up enjoying the process a bit too much and get nothing done. To them, it's all about getting stuff done as soon as possible, with whatever they're familiar with. And since they find computers often quite frustrating, they will abuse the hell out of the little bits they know. And so, in the same way that we would use a lighter to open a bottle if there isn't an opener nearby, they 'abuse' technology by using Excel for everything, or storing their notes in an open notepad window without saving. And as long as that works most of the time, they feel absolutely no incentive to figure out a better way. Until, of course, it all goes wrong. Then they call us to fix it :-).

nnq 13y ago
Jobs had his famous 'computers as bicycles for the mind' metaphor (I guess this is the origin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA_jypfKfAA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA_jypfKfAA), and this is how we geeks see them. The problems are that: 1. computers today don't really look or feel like 'bicycles for the mind' to the average joe -- it's our job to make them look like what they really are instead of dressing them in pretty silky dresses (think all the iStuff...) OR, even worse, make them look like appliances (think the iOS devices that feel like a multi-tool, every app isolated by itself and very hard to move data from one to another) OR, even worse, cripple them on purpose (DRM, closed formats that are not cross-applicatin compatible etc.) 2. most people's minds are really bad at 'learning to ride bicycles'... hell, even teaching a human being to properly read and write takes a few good years -- so it's our jobs to make the bicycles easier to ride, but we should not forget the danger here: the way to make a bicycle easier to ride is not to hide that it's a bike! (this is kind of what we do with most of our UI/X paradigms, and it makes it easier for people to use computers as appliances, but much harder for them to realize they are mind-bikes) Now that we have "a computer in everyone's pocket" we should get our heads out of our asses and show people what a computer really is! And about 'using Excel for everything': I'd take this as a good thing! Excel is almost a goddamn programming language after all (and a functional one, btw), and it'as close as most will ever be to real programming.
- TheZenPsycho 13y ago
  I see this kind of sentiment on Hacker News a lot. I kind of feel like, if you really want to express this thought process, I'd like you to suitably justify that this argument isn't just a smokescreen, disguising your resentment that more people than ever can learn to use and enjoy computers and you're not quite so special anymore. So you make up this story that what they are doing is not really using computers. It's not the same kind of wonderful magic that you can do. And while you say "Now that we have "a computer in everyone's pocket" we should get our heads out of our asses and show people what a computer really is!" Well what if that actually happened! what if computer/coding/programming literacy really did become as widespread as reading,writing and arithmetic. There'd be nothing special about you anymore! So you fight the future. you fight the "Fancy UIs" while saying you're not! Okay maybe none of this applies to YOU specifically. My point is, if you're going to embark along this argument, I think you should really make an effort to prove your true dedication to it. Prove it's not just an expression of a deeper insecurity.

pekk 13y ago

Just using Javascript also makes it the same kind of "frankenstein" - if you are just concerned about code running then Javascript is no better than Flash

larsiusprime 13y ago

OpenFL is not a plugin.

davidgerard 13y ago

>Html is supposed to be a document and not an application. That was TimBL's intention, but that ship sailed in 1995.