6 ms·

I think one compromise could be to remove this restriction from users with > x karma. It's not ideal to me but it is something ...

tptacek 13y ago
A bad comment is a bad comment whether I write it or a green-named user does. Jerkface.
- vacri 13y ago
  This is why I think the anonymous idea above is a good add-on, if we have to have this system.
- dinkumthinkum 13y ago
  um ... ok. But the thing is I don't think this necessary so I would like some way for the echo chamber to not hold. Obviously, the ideal would be to not have the restriction. :)
- yeukhon 13y ago
  The number of bad comment is relatively low. And what kind of bad comments are we after?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Wow do I ever disagree with that. Comments on HN have gotten genuinely awful.
    - yeukhon 13y ago
      Okay. But what is a bad comment then? Maybe your standard is very different from my standard.
      - baddox 13y ago
        If only there was some way to aggregate the opinions of all participants, like through some sort of voting system.
    - yummyfajitas 13y ago
      I hear you express this sentiment often. Could you explain your thoughts on this? If anything, I think the stories are the problem. Cool hacks and interesting science often fail to get the 2-3 upvotes they need to escape the new page. On page 2 of "New", I've found the following fairly decent stories that died recently: http://simplystatistics.org/2014/03/20/the-8020-rule-of-statistical-methods-development/ http://simplystatistics.org/2014/03/20/the-8020-rule-of-stat... http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/cassandra-hits-one-million-writes-per-second-on-google-compute-engine.html http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/cassandra-... Yet both of these are vastly more useful than Julie Horvath's "omfg, I had a workplace conflict" or "Yay basic income, no facts, no reasoning, yay" (currently 380 pts, 441 comments, was #1 for a while today). I'd suggest that it's far more important to improve the stories than to improve the comments. The comments on a story like "JDK 8 Release Notes" or "Circuit Breaker" (about a distributed computing design pattern) are actually quite good.
      - netcan 13y ago
        I don't think that 'general' topics that most people have something to say about are inherently bad (in my opinion). They just have a few problems. First, On 'developing statistical methods' the average HNer has more insightful things to say than the average person. On alternatives to social welfare the average HN commenter is not much more insightful than the average person. The only reason to do it here is because here is the community where they discuss things online. Second some articles contributes no more than just the topic ("Yay basic income, no facts, no reasoning, yay"). HN isn't for that so it fails. It works for discussing articles or specific facts and news items, not for discussing 'topics.^' ATM it looks like there are 2-3 of these on page one. ^BTW, is there any software specifically designed to allow discussion of these "forever topics." IE, the topics that keeps popping up in every forum and get pinned in the traditional BB forums?
      - tptacek 13y ago
        I agree: as long as we restrict ourselves to tech stories in which (a) no startup is implicated in any way (lest the thread devolve into litigation of San Francisco real estate prices) and (b) no sharks/jets rivalry exists (rails v node, rust v go, mongo v cassandra), the comments on HN are pretty good. Every other story has mean, uninformed, badly-written, unproductive comments I also agree that the stories are the bigger problem.
pg 13y ago
It is, actually. Comments by users with over 10k karma go live immediately.
- lancewiggs 13y ago
  I like the intent. Given that karma is a function of votes from articles posted as well as net votes from comments made, is there a way to use the second but not the first for karma limits related to comments?
- tptacek 13y ago
  Really? Are you sure about that decision? If it were my site, I'd decide the other way, if only because I'd worry about the interaction between high-karma commenters that can rapid-fire respond and normal users who have to wait.
  - pg 13y ago
    I don't think people will have to wait so much they'll notice, but we'll see.
- waterlesscloud 13y ago
  Unfortunate, and I say that as a user with more than 10k karma. All comments should earn their endorsements on their own. High karma users are as capable of mean/stupid comments as anyone.
- dfc 13y ago
  It looks like the number of users with >10k karma ≈ 0.3%[^1] Do you have any estimate of number of users >5k and >1k? [^1]: https://hn-karma-tracker.herokuapp.com/overall https://hn-karma-tracker.herokuapp.com/overall

tptacek 13y ago

A bad comment is a bad comment whether I write it or a green-named user does. Jerkface.

vacri 13y ago
This is why I think the anonymous idea above is a good add-on, if we have to have this system.
dinkumthinkum 13y ago
um ... ok. But the thing is I don't think this necessary so I would like some way for the echo chamber to not hold. Obviously, the ideal would be to not have the restriction. :)
yeukhon 13y ago
The number of bad comment is relatively low. And what kind of bad comments are we after?
- tptacek 13y ago
  Wow do I ever disagree with that. Comments on HN have gotten genuinely awful.
  - yeukhon 13y ago
    Okay. But what is a bad comment then? Maybe your standard is very different from my standard.
    - baddox 13y ago
      If only there was some way to aggregate the opinions of all participants, like through some sort of voting system.
  - yummyfajitas 13y ago
    I hear you express this sentiment often. Could you explain your thoughts on this? If anything, I think the stories are the problem. Cool hacks and interesting science often fail to get the 2-3 upvotes they need to escape the new page. On page 2 of "New", I've found the following fairly decent stories that died recently: http://simplystatistics.org/2014/03/20/the-8020-rule-of-statistical-methods-development/ http://simplystatistics.org/2014/03/20/the-8020-rule-of-stat... http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/cassandra-hits-one-million-writes-per-second-on-google-compute-engine.html http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/cassandra-... Yet both of these are vastly more useful than Julie Horvath's "omfg, I had a workplace conflict" or "Yay basic income, no facts, no reasoning, yay" (currently 380 pts, 441 comments, was #1 for a while today). I'd suggest that it's far more important to improve the stories than to improve the comments. The comments on a story like "JDK 8 Release Notes" or "Circuit Breaker" (about a distributed computing design pattern) are actually quite good.
    - netcan 13y ago
      I don't think that 'general' topics that most people have something to say about are inherently bad (in my opinion). They just have a few problems. First, On 'developing statistical methods' the average HNer has more insightful things to say than the average person. On alternatives to social welfare the average HN commenter is not much more insightful than the average person. The only reason to do it here is because here is the community where they discuss things online. Second some articles contributes no more than just the topic ("Yay basic income, no facts, no reasoning, yay"). HN isn't for that so it fails. It works for discussing articles or specific facts and news items, not for discussing 'topics.^' ATM it looks like there are 2-3 of these on page one. ^BTW, is there any software specifically designed to allow discussion of these "forever topics." IE, the topics that keeps popping up in every forum and get pinned in the traditional BB forums?
    - tptacek 13y ago
      I agree: as long as we restrict ourselves to tech stories in which (a) no startup is implicated in any way (lest the thread devolve into litigation of San Francisco real estate prices) and (b) no sharks/jets rivalry exists (rails v node, rust v go, mongo v cassandra), the comments on HN are pretty good. Every other story has mean, uninformed, badly-written, unproductive comments I also agree that the stories are the bigger problem.

pg 13y ago

It is, actually. Comments by users with over 10k karma go live immediately.

lancewiggs 13y ago
I like the intent. Given that karma is a function of votes from articles posted as well as net votes from comments made, is there a way to use the second but not the first for karma limits related to comments?
tptacek 13y ago
Really? Are you sure about that decision? If it were my site, I'd decide the other way, if only because I'd worry about the interaction between high-karma commenters that can rapid-fire respond and normal users who have to wait.
- pg 13y ago
  I don't think people will have to wait so much they'll notice, but we'll see.
waterlesscloud 13y ago
Unfortunate, and I say that as a user with more than 10k karma. All comments should earn their endorsements on their own. High karma users are as capable of mean/stupid comments as anyone.
dfc 13y ago
It looks like the number of users with >10k karma ≈ 0.3%[^1] Do you have any estimate of number of users >5k and >1k? [^1]: https://hn-karma-tracker.herokuapp.com/overall https://hn-karma-tracker.herokuapp.com/overall