3 ms·

The main cost for me is that I plan to move myself and company to Berlin, DE rather than Bellevue, WA. Given the vastly better hiring position, great universit

by rdl 13y ago

The main cost for me is that I plan to move myself and company to Berlin, DE rather than Bellevue, WA. Given the vastly better hiring position, great universities, CCC, and overall benefits of being in Europe, this seems to be a negative cost overall. So thanks, NSA.

blisterpeanuts 13y ago
I'd be curious to know how your German taxes will compare to the U.S.
- rdl 13y ago
  (I'll figure out projected and actual costs and blog about this at some point! I selfishly want to get other tech companies to move, too) Early on, pretty much irrelevant -- VAT is the pain (and the cost of flying to the Bay Area frequently, the cost of moving, putting a bunch of my guns in archival storage, extra hassle in fundraising, ...) I'll probably be back in the US or in non-Germany by the time of taking capital gains, so it's really just: 1) Taxes on business profits 2) Personal income taxes (which, since I don't take a large salary, can't be huge; roughly the same German rate vs. SF rate) 3) Social insurance/etc. net of services SF, CA has absurdly high taxes (federal/state/local) PLUS higher effective taxes due to both high prices pushing income brackets up, and things like $2mm shitty condos being effectively a "tax" as well, and shitty services for the money (so you have to purchase private alternatives on top of paying taxes). On #3 -- I am indifferent between spending $500/mo in increased tax vs. $500/mo on healthcare. For people with school or college aged children, education benefits in Europe seem to be worth a huge amount. There are intangibles like not having to walk over homeless people to get into your office in the morning, or piles of human feces on the sidewalk during the mid-afternoon. Being able to hire awesome people (competing with Rocket, Soundcloud, and a bunch of 1-2 person startups, rather than with ~every startup in SV), and not having to put up with US immigration hassle for a non-US cofounder, makes up for a lot of it. "Branding" advantages of being a European company make up for the rest.
  - blisterpeanuts 13y ago
    I see, so it's basically a wash, except of course that Germany is awesome culturally and logistically (transportation, public services, technology, proximity to the great capitals of Europe).
    - rdl 13y ago
      It might be a wash on costs but the HR and marketing/security benefits are huge.
toomuchtodo 13y ago
If you ever need DevOps/Ops people who want to tag along, see my profile! In Chicago, headed to Europe long term.
DenisM 13y ago
What's the visa/immigration situation like?
- rdl 13y ago
  I had an MP personally mail me asking me to move my business there. In general, it doesn't seem as bad as the US for immigration (from outside EU; within EU it is trivial), but it's a bit bureaucratic and complex. As a funded startup, it's not a big deal.

by rdl 13y ago

blisterpeanuts 13y ago

I'd be curious to know how your German taxes will compare to the U.S.

rdl 13y ago
(I'll figure out projected and actual costs and blog about this at some point! I selfishly want to get other tech companies to move, too) Early on, pretty much irrelevant -- VAT is the pain (and the cost of flying to the Bay Area frequently, the cost of moving, putting a bunch of my guns in archival storage, extra hassle in fundraising, ...) I'll probably be back in the US or in non-Germany by the time of taking capital gains, so it's really just: 1) Taxes on business profits 2) Personal income taxes (which, since I don't take a large salary, can't be huge; roughly the same German rate vs. SF rate) 3) Social insurance/etc. net of services SF, CA has absurdly high taxes (federal/state/local) PLUS higher effective taxes due to both high prices pushing income brackets up, and things like $2mm shitty condos being effectively a "tax" as well, and shitty services for the money (so you have to purchase private alternatives on top of paying taxes). On #3 -- I am indifferent between spending $500/mo in increased tax vs. $500/mo on healthcare. For people with school or college aged children, education benefits in Europe seem to be worth a huge amount. There are intangibles like not having to walk over homeless people to get into your office in the morning, or piles of human feces on the sidewalk during the mid-afternoon. Being able to hire awesome people (competing with Rocket, Soundcloud, and a bunch of 1-2 person startups, rather than with ~every startup in SV), and not having to put up with US immigration hassle for a non-US cofounder, makes up for a lot of it. "Branding" advantages of being a European company make up for the rest.
- blisterpeanuts 13y ago
  I see, so it's basically a wash, except of course that Germany is awesome culturally and logistically (transportation, public services, technology, proximity to the great capitals of Europe).
  - rdl 13y ago
    It might be a wash on costs but the HR and marketing/security benefits are huge.

toomuchtodo 13y ago

If you ever need DevOps/Ops people who want to tag along, see my profile! In Chicago, headed to Europe long term.

DenisM 13y ago

What's the visa/immigration situation like?

rdl 13y ago
I had an MP personally mail me asking me to move my business there. In general, it doesn't seem as bad as the US for immigration (from outside EU; within EU it is trivial), but it's a bit bureaucratic and complex. As a funded startup, it's not a big deal.