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No brainer: join to move the needle in a sensible direction.

garrettgrimsley 13y ago
That isn't how bureaucracies work. The parent can't join the NSA and hope to advance if they (openly) hold views fundamentally contrary to those of their superiors. I believe there is a notable and recent case of how this actually plays out. What was it? Towden? Mowden?
- judk 13y ago
  Mr Bowden was amazingly successful at the work he did, actually. See also Schindler's List for an example of how a contractor of the enemy can undermine it.
  - garrettgrimsley 13y ago
    The impact that Rowden has had on the NSA has come from his actions outside of the NSA, not his work within it. I have not seen Schindler's List, but he also acted against and outside of the organization, rather than "move the needle," yes?
  - vacri 13y ago
    As amazing as Schindler's actions were, they ultimately had little effect on the overall scene, such was the scale of it. He fought the monster and survived, not fought the monster and brought it low. Schindler saved a thousand people through some pretty ballsy actions. But for scale, the battles of Stalingrad, Leningrad, and Moscow each had total casualty rates for both sides of 1-2 million people apiece.
    - lotsofcows 13y ago
      One man can only do his best. Every man that stood against fascism was still only one man. And yet they won. Also, there is some indication that Schindler sabotaged the bomb parts he made so he saved more people than is immediately obvious.
      - lotsofcows 13y ago
        Downvote? Any clues why?
dsuth 13y ago
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." -Nietzsche
Tobu 13y ago
Power at the NSA would be concentrated towards the most shameless bastards. It's not really within the power of random employees/contractors/grunts to fix. Snowden would be the example to follow here, but you really have to work outside the box.
chippy 13y ago
>sensible Sensible in that place means catching terrorists. It's easier to justify injustices if you can rationalise it by saying you are saving lives.

That isn't how bureaucracies work. The parent can't join the NSA and hope to advance if they (openly) hold views fundamentally contrary to those of their superiors. I believe there is a notable and recent case of how this actually plays out. What was it? Towden? Mowden?

judk 13y ago
Mr Bowden was amazingly successful at the work he did, actually. See also Schindler's List for an example of how a contractor of the enemy can undermine it.
- garrettgrimsley 13y ago
  The impact that Rowden has had on the NSA has come from his actions outside of the NSA, not his work within it. I have not seen Schindler's List, but he also acted against and outside of the organization, rather than "move the needle," yes?
- vacri 13y ago
  As amazing as Schindler's actions were, they ultimately had little effect on the overall scene, such was the scale of it. He fought the monster and survived, not fought the monster and brought it low. Schindler saved a thousand people through some pretty ballsy actions. But for scale, the battles of Stalingrad, Leningrad, and Moscow each had total casualty rates for both sides of 1-2 million people apiece.
  - lotsofcows 13y ago
    One man can only do his best. Every man that stood against fascism was still only one man. And yet they won. Also, there is some indication that Schindler sabotaged the bomb parts he made so he saved more people than is immediately obvious.
    - lotsofcows 13y ago
      Downvote? Any clues why?

dsuth 13y ago

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." -Nietzsche

Tobu 13y ago

Power at the NSA would be concentrated towards the most shameless bastards. It's not really within the power of random employees/contractors/grunts to fix. Snowden would be the example to follow here, but you really have to work outside the box.

chippy 13y ago

>sensible Sensible in that place means catching terrorists. It's easier to justify injustices if you can rationalise it by saying you are saving lives.