6 ms·

Iranian Ship, in Plain View but Shrouded in Mystery, Looks Very Familiar to U.S.

42 points by philip1209 13y ago

tzakrajs 13y ago
Another Google Black Project...
femto 13y ago
Might be useful in figuring out what the radar signature of such a boat looks like?
- vonmoltke 13y ago
  No. It would be no better than what could be calculated by hand. The only way to get a detailed profile is to collect data on the actual ships. Regardless, I don't know of an Iranian radar system that is good enough for detailed signature data to be of any use.
- thearn4 13y ago
  It would still probably be cheaper to simulate that using something like COMSOL.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  There've been plenty of Nimitz-class carriers in radar range of Iranian ships and installations for them to know what they look like.
  - dingaling 13y ago
    The problem with that is that the aspect of a moving subject keeps changing. For example they might wish to profile the radar signature in various wavelengths and from various angles. Carrier groups aren't co-operative to such study.
fiatmoney 13y ago
Could possibly be useful in practicing approaches with fast-attack craft & wargaming the response. Just speculation, but then again, so is the whole article.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- philip1209 13y ago
  It's not to-scale. Do you think it would have to be full-sized to be used for this purpose?
  - Crito 13y ago
    Maybe they just got bored with making fiberglass "fighter jets".
jjoonathan 13y ago
The purpose is hardly "shrouded in mystery." Iran has been very busy perfecting their anti-carrier missiles: http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/the-sunburn-missile-the-weapon-that-could-defeat-the-us-in-the-gulf-2467754.html http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/the-sunburn-mis... (^ that's quite possibly an overstated opinion piece -- I wouldn't know, I'm not an expert on these things -- but I'm sure there is a kernel of truth there) http://www.militaryaerospace.com/blogs/aerospace-defense-blog/2013/07/how-vulnerable-are-u-s-navy-vessels-to-advanced-anti-ship-cruise-missiles.html http://www.militaryaerospace.com/blogs/aerospace-defense-blo... http://thediplomat.com/2013/06/irans-carrier-killer-missile-improves-accuracy/ http://thediplomat.com/2013/06/irans-carrier-killer-missile-... I'd bet that the barge was built to test them in a live-fire exercise. Of course, the real question is how well the missile can get past a real carrier's defenses. A barge won't help with that, but the behavior of American carriers after Iran hits the barge might give the answer away.
- vonmoltke 13y ago
  > that's quite possibly an overstated opinion piece Understatement of the year (so far). > I'd bet that the barge was built to test them in a live-fire exercise. Might as well just use a tanker hulk. Its about as useful as this thing. > Of course, the real question is how well the missile can get past a real carrier's defenses. Yes, and the defenses of the rest of the CVBG. And how well the ship's damage control will perform. And how well it will penetrate the actual armor of the ship. And how well the secondary protection systems work at suppressing secondary explosions and fires from fuel and ammunition stores. And the overall success rate of these missiles before factoring in everything else I just mentioned. Soviet Frontal Aviation's plan for dealing with a US CVBG in the event of a hot war was to hit it with a saturation raid of 100 - 150 Tu-22 Backfire bombers each armed with a pair of Kh-22 (AS-4 Kitchen)[1] anti-ship missiles. The Soviet Navy felt that this level of saturation was required to ensure that the battlegroup's defenses would be sufficiently overwhelmed after accounting for bomber losses, electro-mechanical failures, and missile defense attrition. The Aegis system and F-14/AIM-54 pairing were developed specifically to combat a Frontal Aviation saturation raid. Sea skimmers, which the Kitchen was not, add an extra variable but do not have the range. The Gulf transit scenario is ludicrous. The US Navy would not sail a CVBG into the Gulf in a war situation where the enemy has significant shore defenses without first suppressing those defenses. This activity would not be nearly as difficult as the badly misinformed author of the first piece seems to think, as finding the installations for launching these missiles is not difficult. If said installations want to have a snowball's chance in hell of finding a target to hit they will need to light it up, even if only briefly. At that point the fire control radar station is getting a HARM up the ass. The rest of the station is going to be fairly hard (though not impossible) to hide as well. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-22
jonah 13y ago
It appears to have been launched already: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.0537625,55.9728151,1003m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@27.0537625,55.9728151,1003m/dat...
vishaldpatel 13y ago
Drone carrier?
TerraHertz 13y ago
Perhaps it's made of cake... But seriously, mockup for testing optical image-recognition guided anti-ship missiles, in all weather conditions. Unlike for radar guided missiles, for image recognition systems 'looking like it' is good enough. Expect the DOD to place an order for 100 inflatable dummy full-scale aircraft carriers.

42 points by philip1209 13y ago

tzakrajs 13y ago

Another Google Black Project...

femto 13y ago

Might be useful in figuring out what the radar signature of such a boat looks like?

vonmoltke 13y ago
No. It would be no better than what could be calculated by hand. The only way to get a detailed profile is to collect data on the actual ships. Regardless, I don't know of an Iranian radar system that is good enough for detailed signature data to be of any use.
thearn4 13y ago
It would still probably be cheaper to simulate that using something like COMSOL.
ceejayoz 13y ago
There've been plenty of Nimitz-class carriers in radar range of Iranian ships and installations for them to know what they look like.
- dingaling 13y ago
  The problem with that is that the aspect of a moving subject keeps changing. For example they might wish to profile the radar signature in various wavelengths and from various angles. Carrier groups aren't co-operative to such study.

fiatmoney 13y ago

Could possibly be useful in practicing approaches with fast-attack craft & wargaming the response. Just speculation, but then again, so is the whole article.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
philip1209 13y ago
It's not to-scale. Do you think it would have to be full-sized to be used for this purpose?
- Crito 13y ago
  Maybe they just got bored with making fiberglass "fighter jets".

jjoonathan 13y ago

The purpose is hardly "shrouded in mystery." Iran has been very busy perfecting their anti-carrier missiles: http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/the-sunburn-missile-the-weapon-that-could-defeat-the-us-in-the-gulf-2467754.html http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/the-sunburn-mis... (^ that's quite possibly an overstated opinion piece -- I wouldn't know, I'm not an expert on these things -- but I'm sure there is a kernel of truth there) http://www.militaryaerospace.com/blogs/aerospace-defense-blog/2013/07/how-vulnerable-are-u-s-navy-vessels-to-advanced-anti-ship-cruise-missiles.html http://www.militaryaerospace.com/blogs/aerospace-defense-blo... http://thediplomat.com/2013/06/irans-carrier-killer-missile-improves-accuracy/ http://thediplomat.com/2013/06/irans-carrier-killer-missile-... I'd bet that the barge was built to test them in a live-fire exercise. Of course, the real question is how well the missile can get past a real carrier's defenses. A barge won't help with that, but the behavior of American carriers after Iran hits the barge might give the answer away.

vonmoltke 13y ago
> that's quite possibly an overstated opinion piece Understatement of the year (so far). > I'd bet that the barge was built to test them in a live-fire exercise. Might as well just use a tanker hulk. Its about as useful as this thing. > Of course, the real question is how well the missile can get past a real carrier's defenses. Yes, and the defenses of the rest of the CVBG. And how well the ship's damage control will perform. And how well it will penetrate the actual armor of the ship. And how well the secondary protection systems work at suppressing secondary explosions and fires from fuel and ammunition stores. And the overall success rate of these missiles before factoring in everything else I just mentioned. Soviet Frontal Aviation's plan for dealing with a US CVBG in the event of a hot war was to hit it with a saturation raid of 100 - 150 Tu-22 Backfire bombers each armed with a pair of Kh-22 (AS-4 Kitchen)[1] anti-ship missiles. The Soviet Navy felt that this level of saturation was required to ensure that the battlegroup's defenses would be sufficiently overwhelmed after accounting for bomber losses, electro-mechanical failures, and missile defense attrition. The Aegis system and F-14/AIM-54 pairing were developed specifically to combat a Frontal Aviation saturation raid. Sea skimmers, which the Kitchen was not, add an extra variable but do not have the range. The Gulf transit scenario is ludicrous. The US Navy would not sail a CVBG into the Gulf in a war situation where the enemy has significant shore defenses without first suppressing those defenses. This activity would not be nearly as difficult as the badly misinformed author of the first piece seems to think, as finding the installations for launching these missiles is not difficult. If said installations want to have a snowball's chance in hell of finding a target to hit they will need to light it up, even if only briefly. At that point the fire control radar station is getting a HARM up the ass. The rest of the station is going to be fairly hard (though not impossible) to hide as well. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-22

jonah 13y ago

It appears to have been launched already: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.0537625,55.9728151,1003m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@27.0537625,55.9728151,1003m/dat...

vishaldpatel 13y ago

Drone carrier?

TerraHertz 13y ago

Perhaps it's made of cake... But seriously, mockup for testing optical image-recognition guided anti-ship missiles, in all weather conditions. Unlike for radar guided missiles, for image recognition systems 'looking like it' is good enough. Expect the DOD to place an order for 100 inflatable dummy full-scale aircraft carriers.