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Summary of events leading to this response: SparkFun has been selling a type of inexpensive digital multimeter since 2008. About two weeks ago, they were info
by sisk 13y ago
Summary of events leading to this response:
SparkFun has been selling a type of inexpensive digital multimeter since 2008.
About two weeks ago, they were informed that a recent shipment of 2,000 units (a $30,000 value) was seized by customs due to a trademark owned by Fluke (granted 2003). Specifically, their units violate Fluke's branding (gray face, yellow border).
The Chinese manufacturer won't take them back (prohibitively expensive due to import tax) so SparkFun has to pay to have the units warehoused ($150/day) and—very shortly—destroyed ($150/hour).
Moving forward, SparkFun will change their DMMs to be red instead of yellow.
- servowire 13y agoThanks.
- toomuchtodo 13y agoIts important to note that Fluke is required to enforce their trademark or they risk losing it.
- mindslight 13y agoActually no, in fact it's counterproductive. That's a mindless aphorism thrown about to deflect blame from the actual people responsible for decisions, similar to "companies are legally required to maximize profit".
- toomuchtodo 13y agoI get your perspective (after checking your profile). Is Louis CK counterproductive because he doesn't grab a pitchfork and head to Congress to reform copyright law? No. He sells his videos for $5 and asks you nicely not to copy them. Some people try to fix the system. Some people try to do good within the system. Some people do both. Don't shit on someone's parade because you don't feel they didn't do enough, otherwise you alienate your allies.
- mindslight 13y agoIt seems like you're mixing another comment of mine with what I wrote above. For what it's worth, I like Louis CK's approach - it looks like a great post-copyright business model. But your original comment is orthogonal to working within the system. Saying that companies have to "protect their trademarks or lose them" is indeed true in the strict legal sense. But a company could legally "protect" their trademark by issuing yearly licenses for token compensation for products that they consider different enough, but the law might not. By taking the strict legal definition out of its narrow context, you imply that a company has no choice but to act a certain way, when in fact there are specific people responsible for its behavior. We should not allow these people abdicate their reasoning by promoting the idea that the expected corporate action is the only possible course.
- gonzo 13y ago> But a company could legally "protect" their trademark by issuing yearly licenses for token compensation for products that they consider different enough, but the law might not. Nope. This is known as "naked licensing",and can lead to loss of the mark.
- mindslight 13y agoThen maybe the implementation is a non-binding letter of understanding between the two companies, stating that they both believe their business areas and marks are sufficiently different to avoid confusion. Any court that does not respect trademark owners reaching their own thought-out amicable agreement is an unjust one.
- josephlord 13y agoYou can lose trademarks that are not defended or become generic terms but on the other hand I think that they can be licensed to particular companies/usages. Allowing a company to use your trademark without entering an agreement is a bad idea.
- anigbrowl 13y agoWrong: http://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/LossofTrademarkRightsFactSheet.aspx http://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/LossofT... This is trademark law 101, not a 'mindless aphorism.' Any trademark lawyer will tell you that firms need to police the use of their marks if they wish to courts to enforce their rights in the mark. What basis do you have for claiming otherwise?
- mindslight 13y agoPlease read my follow up response (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7439468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7439468). The legal environment is one specific context. I don't go around saying 'syntax error!' to anyone who misspeaks.
- anigbrowl 13y agoYour solution to this seems to be (morally) compulsory licensing instead of notifying customs authorities about the fact of an infringement. Exactly why should a firm grant a license to its direct competitor to make inferior-quality goods in the first firm's trade dress? I could just as easily argue that the fault for the waste here lies with the Chinese exporter who refuses to take back the unwanted product which infringes on someone else's trade dress. I don't buy the argument about import taxes making it too expensive, this is what entrepots are for.
- mindslight 13y agoIn this case, I do not believe that the firms are actually direct competitors. Fluke seems to somewhat agree, judging by this gesture of goodwill that they're giving Sparkfun. We hear of plenty of similar cases where some firm sends a C&D to a barely related firm, and a common refrain is that the first firm simply must defend their trademark in such a manner, leaving no room for judgment. I am pointing out that this is patently false.
- teacup50 13y ago
- gonzo 13y agoabsolutely wrong.
- larrys 13y agoThere are ways around that though. They can offer to license the trademark. Apple for example licensed the "ios" trademark from Cisco. http://blogs.cisco.com/news/cisco_and_apple_agreement_on_ios_trademark/ http://blogs.cisco.com/news/cisco_and_apple_agreement_on_ios...
- gonzo 13y agonow let's see if that license can be used on a mythical "router" that apple builds. I'll bet that license has a ton of restrictions.
- codfrantic 13y agoSo it doesn't matter that the 'mythical' Apple AirPort devices don't run iOS?
- adsche 13y agoWhy don't they protect their logo instead of something like "grey face, yellow casing"?
- CraigJPerry 13y agoRed is also a well known Fluke colour. It's used in their "intrinsically safe" line. I'm not sure if they have a patent on it right enough.
- markrages 13y ago> Moving forward, SparkFun will change their DMMs to be red instead of yellow. Amprobe might take issue with that: https://www.google.com/search?q=amprobe&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=amprobe&tbm=isch
- sigstoat 13y agoor meterman. http://www.wavetekmeterman.com/mmusen/home/default.htm http://www.wavetekmeterman.com/mmusen/home/default.htm
- cpks 13y agoCraftsman multimeters are red. Hahaha.