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I had a terrible experience last weekend. I went down to the corner to get some money out of the ATM. I walked up and stuck in my card and the ATM wouldn't giv

by mcherm 13y ago

I had a terrible experience last weekend. I went down to the corner to get some money out of the ATM. I walked up and stuck in my card and the ATM wouldn't give me any money: said something about my card not being supported. So I walked into the bank building adjacent to the ATM and asked them about it. Well, first I had to wait in a line: there were two people in front of me so that took about 5 minutes. Then they explained that the ATM didn't work because I didn't have an account with that bank, and would I like to open an account? I said sure, go ahead, then they started asking me all kinds of intrusive questions. They wanted to see my driver's license and they even wanted to know my social security number! I asked them why they needed this information and they muttered something about the "US Patriot Act"[1]. Anyway, it took another few minutes for them to collect all this, then they said they needed a few moments to run it past some lists. (Apparently the US government keeps some lists of terrorists and whatnot -- I told them I wasn't on any of the lists but they insisted on checking anyway.) After a few more minutes they came back and said I was fine. They transferred money from my existing bank and handed me a new ATM card. I tried it and everything worked smoothly this time. I don't think anyone should use this bank. The process took me half-an-hour or more and it was really awkward. [1] - http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/patriot/ http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/patriot/

derekp7 13y ago
I've never seen a case where an card wouldn't work in another bank's automated ATM machine. I know this used to be the case, but there are a bunch of logos on the back of my card, and a bunch of logos on various ATMs, and as long as there is an intersection of at least on of those logos it should work. And there is a big difference between giving basic proof of ID information to a regulated financial institution, vs. handing it over to an unknown entity.
- nezza-_- 13y ago
  Just FYI: ATM stands for Automated Teller Machine, so your sentence expands to "automated automated teller machine machine" :)
  - derekp7 13y ago
    I know -- that's why I threw automated at the beginning (inside joke). But adding "machine" at the end seems to happen a lot (and feels natural) when an acronym transitions to a stand-alone name. I wonder if there is a name for this phenomenon?
    - tectec 13y ago
      It is called RAS syndrome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
  - stronglikedan 13y ago
    Don't even get me started on "PIN number".
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- dangrossman 13y ago
  The comment was a parody of the post, showing how you go through much the same process to use a cash ATM the first time -- establishing an account, providing ID, having your account approved, etc. As for your last sentence, Bitcoin exchanges are regulated financial institutions, they don't have the choice of not collecting identification even if they're unknown to you. Anti Money Laundering (AML) and Know Your Customer (KYC) policies are not optional for money transmitters.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
  Yeah the cool thing about real ATMs is they're all connected up through the national/international transfer networks, and it Just Works. I've withdrawn from ATMs with the same card on three different continents (with only the fear that someone might have put a skimmer on the card slot, but given recorded history I'd rather take my chances with that than with anything bitcoin)
dogas 13y ago
Author here. I see what you did there but I disagree. The whole point of bitcoin is anonymity and convenience of transacting. What I did was essentially "buy" US dollars using my bitcoin, through this device. The fact that this device wanted to establish and verify my identity seemed unnecessary to me and counter to what I think are bitcoin's strongest qualities.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  >The fact that this device wanted to establish and verify my identity seemed unnecessary to me and counter to what I think are bitcoin's strongest qualities. Why do you think the device needed to establish and verify your identity? Do you think they installed all those expensive ID verifying devices for the hell of it? I'll be blunt: they only did it because they know they'll likely go to jail if they don't collect that information.
- joshstrange 13y ago
  > The fact that this device wanted to establish and verify my identity seemed unnecessary to me and counter to what I think are bitcoin's strongest qualities. They don't collect that data because they want to, they collect it because they are forced to by the US government. This is a similar process that you would have to go through to open a bank account at any US bank. You make it seem like "It took over 45 minutes" but this was your first withdraw, subsequent withdraws would only require the ~10 minutes to confirm your deposit of BTC into the robocoin wallet. 10 minutes to (reliably) convert BTC to cash is unheard of. As I said in another comment, the only faster method would be to use Local Bitcoins (The people running the ATM you used) but I doubt you could finish one of those transactions in less than 20 or even 30 minutes.
- mcherm 13y ago
  The problem here is that you and your government have different goals. The operator of the bitcoin ATM probably has no desire to know your identity or fingerprints but your government requires them to obtain it in the name of maintaining control over crime and the money supply. Of course, placing the blame on the government instead of the ATM operator doesn't invalidate your observations, but it may alter your view of the solutions.

by mcherm 13y ago

derekp7 13y ago

I've never seen a case where an card wouldn't work in another bank's automated ATM machine. I know this used to be the case, but there are a bunch of logos on the back of my card, and a bunch of logos on various ATMs, and as long as there is an intersection of at least on of those logos it should work. And there is a big difference between giving basic proof of ID information to a regulated financial institution, vs. handing it over to an unknown entity.

nezza-_- 13y ago
Just FYI: ATM stands for Automated Teller Machine, so your sentence expands to "automated automated teller machine machine" :)
- derekp7 13y ago
  I know -- that's why I threw automated at the beginning (inside joke). But adding "machine" at the end seems to happen a lot (and feels natural) when an acronym transitions to a stand-alone name. I wonder if there is a name for this phenomenon?
  - tectec 13y ago
    It is called RAS syndrome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
- stronglikedan 13y ago
  Don't even get me started on "PIN number".
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
dangrossman 13y ago
The comment was a parody of the post, showing how you go through much the same process to use a cash ATM the first time -- establishing an account, providing ID, having your account approved, etc. As for your last sentence, Bitcoin exchanges are regulated financial institutions, they don't have the choice of not collecting identification even if they're unknown to you. Anti Money Laundering (AML) and Know Your Customer (KYC) policies are not optional for money transmitters.
GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
Yeah the cool thing about real ATMs is they're all connected up through the national/international transfer networks, and it Just Works. I've withdrawn from ATMs with the same card on three different continents (with only the fear that someone might have put a skimmer on the card slot, but given recorded history I'd rather take my chances with that than with anything bitcoin)

dogas 13y ago

Author here. I see what you did there but I disagree. The whole point of bitcoin is anonymity and convenience of transacting. What I did was essentially "buy" US dollars using my bitcoin, through this device. The fact that this device wanted to establish and verify my identity seemed unnecessary to me and counter to what I think are bitcoin's strongest qualities.

jnbiche 13y ago
>The fact that this device wanted to establish and verify my identity seemed unnecessary to me and counter to what I think are bitcoin's strongest qualities. Why do you think the device needed to establish and verify your identity? Do you think they installed all those expensive ID verifying devices for the hell of it? I'll be blunt: they only did it because they know they'll likely go to jail if they don't collect that information.
joshstrange 13y ago
> The fact that this device wanted to establish and verify my identity seemed unnecessary to me and counter to what I think are bitcoin's strongest qualities. They don't collect that data because they want to, they collect it because they are forced to by the US government. This is a similar process that you would have to go through to open a bank account at any US bank. You make it seem like "It took over 45 minutes" but this was your first withdraw, subsequent withdraws would only require the ~10 minutes to confirm your deposit of BTC into the robocoin wallet. 10 minutes to (reliably) convert BTC to cash is unheard of. As I said in another comment, the only faster method would be to use Local Bitcoins (The people running the ATM you used) but I doubt you could finish one of those transactions in less than 20 or even 30 minutes.
mcherm 13y ago
The problem here is that you and your government have different goals. The operator of the bitcoin ATM probably has no desire to know your identity or fingerprints but your government requires them to obtain it in the name of maintaining control over crime and the money supply. Of course, placing the blame on the government instead of the ATM operator doesn't invalidate your observations, but it may alter your view of the solutions.