5 ms·

Ancestry isn't an absolute categorization. But it's a worse fallacy to say that broad racial groups don't exist. Beyond your lying eyes, a single glance at an

by thras 17y ago

Ancestry isn't an absolute categorization. But it's a worse fallacy to say that broad racial groups don't exist. Beyond your lying eyes, a single glance at an SNP map will inform you of how genetic variance tends to clump. Risky policy is relying on blank slate thinking to imagine that we can import the third world without, well, importing the third world. It's a consequence of living in a country where neither the left nor the right believe that evolutionary theory really applies to humans.

tokenadult 17y ago
For onlookers who want to learn more about evolutionary theory, here's a long video of a lecture by the researcher who studied the SNP map. http://gustavus.edu/events/nobelconference/2008/feldman-lecture.php http://gustavus.edu/events/nobelconference/2008/feldman-lect... 1) The United States federal categories don't correspond to the categories he found. 2) Most phenotypical traits of interest have WEAK correlations with any of the groupings he found, as he says near the end of his lecture during the Q and A. The reason for that is that the SNP lineages that show founder effects are not subject to selection pressure, but most phenotypical traits of interest ARE subject to selection pressure, and so those gene frequencies will change over time in any population, whoever the founders are, for the fitness of descendant individuals. On how general national policy should treat immigrants, didn't I imply clearly that it would be a good idea for all immigrants to the United States to build together a common American culture? But culture is not tied to "race" in the federal definitional sense. Some new immigrants from the Third World think like First World people, and some native-born Americans of many generations of American ancestry think like Third World people. A democratic republic needs citizens (voters) who are rational and well informed and committed to building a strong joint community, yes, but it's not clear at the outset who should be excluded from an opportunity to show that they can join that cause.
- thras 17y ago
  Feldman and his crew at Stanford are at the forefront of the "your lying eyes" crowd. http://genomebiology.com/2008/9/7/404 http://genomebiology.com/2008/9/7/404 Hawks at Utah has written about Feldman on his blog, I believe. In fact, SNP maps tend to be very detailed and show the variation one would expect plus variation we didn't know about before. Click for some pictures: http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/02/npr-on-human-variation.php http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/02/npr-on-human-variation.php Your philosophizing on immigration strikes me as informed by equality theory rather than reality and evidence.
  - tokenadult 17y ago
    reality and evidence What reality and evidence are you talking about? Have you lived in more than one country?
    - thras 17y ago
      I said that you seemed to be philosophizing rather than speaking from any reality or evidence. You made lots and lots of general statements that would make my kindergarten teacher's heart glad, but don't present any actual facts. That makes me think that you argue based on the world you'd like to exist, not the one that actually does.
      - tokenadult 17y ago
        I was expecting you not to miss the chance to mention the reality and evidence you claim you are attending to. Here's a second chance.
        thras 17y ago
        Oh. You misunderstood me. I said your argument was fact-free. If you'd like me to make an argument and do your research for you, then you'll have to make yourself more interesting.

by thras 17y ago

tokenadult 17y ago

For onlookers who want to learn more about evolutionary theory, here's a long video of a lecture by the researcher who studied the SNP map. http://gustavus.edu/events/nobelconference/2008/feldman-lecture.php http://gustavus.edu/events/nobelconference/2008/feldman-lect... 1) The United States federal categories don't correspond to the categories he found. 2) Most phenotypical traits of interest have WEAK correlations with any of the groupings he found, as he says near the end of his lecture during the Q and A. The reason for that is that the SNP lineages that show founder effects are not subject to selection pressure, but most phenotypical traits of interest ARE subject to selection pressure, and so those gene frequencies will change over time in any population, whoever the founders are, for the fitness of descendant individuals. On how general national policy should treat immigrants, didn't I imply clearly that it would be a good idea for all immigrants to the United States to build together a common American culture? But culture is not tied to "race" in the federal definitional sense. Some new immigrants from the Third World think like First World people, and some native-born Americans of many generations of American ancestry think like Third World people. A democratic republic needs citizens (voters) who are rational and well informed and committed to building a strong joint community, yes, but it's not clear at the outset who should be excluded from an opportunity to show that they can join that cause.

thras 17y ago
Feldman and his crew at Stanford are at the forefront of the "your lying eyes" crowd. http://genomebiology.com/2008/9/7/404 http://genomebiology.com/2008/9/7/404 Hawks at Utah has written about Feldman on his blog, I believe. In fact, SNP maps tend to be very detailed and show the variation one would expect plus variation we didn't know about before. Click for some pictures: http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/02/npr-on-human-variation.php http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/02/npr-on-human-variation.php Your philosophizing on immigration strikes me as informed by equality theory rather than reality and evidence.
- tokenadult 17y ago
  reality and evidence What reality and evidence are you talking about? Have you lived in more than one country?
  - thras 17y ago
    I said that you seemed to be philosophizing rather than speaking from any reality or evidence. You made lots and lots of general statements that would make my kindergarten teacher's heart glad, but don't present any actual facts. That makes me think that you argue based on the world you'd like to exist, not the one that actually does.
    - tokenadult 17y ago
      I was expecting you not to miss the chance to mention the reality and evidence you claim you are attending to. Here's a second chance.
      - thras 17y ago
        Oh. You misunderstood me. I said your argument was fact-free. If you'd like me to make an argument and do your research for you, then you'll have to make yourself more interesting.