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While I think some of the claims of consumers about the car were overblown, and the testimony of a few consumers who basically claim the car caused them to spee
by drakaal 13y ago
While I think some of the claims of consumers about the car were overblown, and the testimony of a few consumers who basically claim the car caused them to speed down the highway (what you never heard of using the emergency break) was more amusing than "scary", I think that this does show how as software starts to do things that could threaten a consumers life that we need to have solid protocols for how that is dealt with.
Do we say "nobody use your toaster until the firmware is updated" or do we do the traditional recall thing and offer an exchange to those who registered their product, or do we go full in and use the internet to say, "your toaster will not work until it is updated".
We see some of this in Windows 8. It routinely says you need to install the update in the next hour, your PC is going to reboot, do so now or later. This is an attempt to keep your computer safe even if it creates a bad user experience.
Should cars do the same thing? Should Toasters? How unsafe does it need to be to warrant preventing use?
- mzr 13y agoSome emergency brakes are electrical. All automobile brake systems are hydraulic, and can overcome the engine even at wide open throttle.
- epochwolf 13y agoThe emergency brake is not powerful enough to overcome the throttle. Additionally, I'd love to see if your reaction in an emergency like that would be any different. Humans react very irrationally even with training. It's easy to sit in your chair and say someone did the wrong thing.
- LanceH 13y agoToyota's fault humans react irrationally. Got it. They stepped on the wrong pedal, it's that simple. Oh, and they weren't an American car company.
- ceejayoz 13y ago> They stepped on the wrong pedal, it's that simple. Did you read the article? > Prosecutors said that Toyota concealed problems related to floor mats and sticky accelerator pedals... Investigators discovered internal Toyota documents that acknowledged serious problems with its vehicles.
- mabhatter 13y agoAmerica car companies issue recalls all the time. That is what's getting Toyota in trouble from the start. A company I worked for was involved in those decisions made with days of discovering a slightly wrong raw material grade was shipped. Because that wrong part didn't meet the spec and MIGHT cause a problem in the part after it wore down five years from now. They paid for testing and proved the raw material was equivalent in performance and didn't have to recall. But it happened in days/weeks long before the parts would have had any failures. American companies took to using recalls as "preventive" measures decades ago. They learned to have a lot of them without the government forcing them so that the really nasty ones get buried in the shuffle and the mechanic just replaces the parts he's told... Toyota fought the government hard every step of the way, even in making the design materials and manufacturing information hauled off to Japan... mostly because the pedal issue already had large lawsuits before Toyota even acknowledged looking at the problem. If they issued a recall, all that was going to hit the lawsuit train.... Not to mention in Japan companies just don't get hauled over the coals like this... They thought they'd fight it.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agohttp://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer-firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- bradyd 13y agoHaving personally experienced the floor mat issue in a Toyota 4Runner, I definitely didn't hit the wrong pedal. I intentionally hit the gas pedal. I had floored it for about a second or two, lifted my foot and the pedal didn't come with it. Thankfully I realized what had happened really quickly and was able to pry the pedal back up with my foot. Prior to that event I would have never even considered a possibility of the accelerator getting stuck like that.
- ceejayoz 13y ago> what you never heard of using the emergency break Put yours on, put it in drive, and you'll find that applying throttle will likely easily override the emergency brake. It's there to stop the car from rolling down a hill, not to fight the engine. Hell, I once drove my parents' car about a mile without realizing it had the brake on.
- dllthomas 13y agoThat said, going less fast might still be a win...
- ceejayoz 13y agoI didn't notice a thing with it engaged. It was the light on the dash (in a different spot than in my usual car) that clued me in. If I didn't notice much difference at zero MPH, it's unlikely to make any sort of difference at highway speeds.
- dllthomas 13y agoProbably varies by car, but I'd guess you didn't notice partly because you weren't paying very close attention to just how much gas you were applying versus just what your acceleration looked like. I've also ever driven with the brake engaged, and pretty quickly noticed due to the different handling. Beside that, kinetic energy grows with the square of the velocity, so even if it only shaves off 10% of your speed that's close to 20% less energy in the wreck (on top of marginally improved reaction times). It may degrade maneuverability though.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoYou mean the "Emergency make the car smell funny lever"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUhJEvHP9xY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUhJEvHP9xY
- sp332 13y agoThe normal brake, on the other hand, has far more than enough stopping power to overcome a wide-open throttle.
- lutorm 13y agoWhy use the emergency brake, use the real brake! Or shift into neutral. On my Passat, conflicting inputs (ie, pushing both brake and throttle) would result in the throttle being cut. I seem to remember Toyota implementing a similar system after this.
- bagels 13y agoHow are you supposed to do a burnout?
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoIf you apply the emergency brake at highway speed and full throttle, you're guaranteed to have an accident. (if it engages fully)
- bagels 13y agoNot in all cars or for all drivers. My rear drive car barely slows, and I can control the skid in my front drive car. These are as tested by me at 80+ mph on a racetrack.
- kristianp 13y agoIs the term "emergency brake" only used in the US? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_brake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_brake "Although sometimes known as an emergency brake, using it in any emergency where the footbrake is still operational is likely to badly upset the brake balance of the car and vastly increase the likelihood of loss of control of the vehicle, for example by initiating a rear-wheel skid. Additionally, the stopping force provided by using the handbrake is small and would not significantly aid in stopping the vehicle."