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> Of particular interest to us are ways to use the Internet to fix government—for example, crowdfunding social services. I have an unannounced goal in my proje

by buro9 13y ago

> Of particular interest to us are ways to use the Internet to fix government—for example, crowdfunding social services. I have an unannounced goal in my projects to achieve something bigger than this... to use the internet to change political systems, the structure of them and how populaces engage with them. I think it has to be fait accompli though, already done. It will take a generation to achieve fully and putting it in a pitch deck or advertising it before it's done is only going to allow people to attack it before it's taken root. I truly believe this is possible and achievable. But when I share the plan (in person, not on the internet) and get passionate about politics, a few are inspired and believe... and most think I'm off-the-planet crazy (though they don't think it's unachievable). Fait accompli... I need to get it done for it to be already done. I believe the company is going to be successful, make a huge return for investors, and change the lives of users (I've seen that first-hand already). But I also believe it can be a trojan horse for a set of ideas that can change societies and how we choose to be governed. I'd largely got to the point where I wasn't going to consider YC, but if they're serious about this one and can be more ambitious, I might be tempted to apply.

svenkatesh 13y ago
Er... you think you're startup (microcosm), which is glorified forum software, will change "political systems, the structure of them and how populaces engage with them?"
- buro9 13y ago
  Take an interest in anthropology and observe how communities interact and shape the environment (and systems of hierarchy and control) around them, and then consider how software can influence interactions. Not that I'd argue with you with where we're at today. The destination may be over the horizon, but the first milestone is right in front of us and looks like we've barely moved. Which is true.
  - ntoshev 13y ago
    The internet does rewire the fabric of society. Facebook has a big role in modern revolutions. I'm just skeptical that the forum format has the potential to bring further material advances.
    - buro9 13y ago
      I guess a question could be asked about whether Hacker News has had any impact at all. Has it brought people together, in ways that has fostered new innovation or the creation of companies or approaches to ideas, or resulted in any political lobbying whatsoever on any front? Almost regardless of how impact is quantified, the answer is going to be yes. Looking at any influential forum within any given vertical, that same pattern is repeated over and over. Impact is material and real, when enough people with a shared interest come together. Could the impact have been more measurable if the technology that powers forums been more supportive of the users needs? Again it's hard to answer that software that more easily helps pull people together in the real (as well as in the virtual) world and strengthen those bonds within a community wouldn't have more impact than software that didn't. Forums are impactful, and do bring about advances. But currently only in small groups and without the impact or advances being accessible to other groups. The question isn't whether this happens in forums, but whether it's possible to encourage it to happen and what may emerge if it happens more often in similar ways. Could forums be used as a testing ground for new political structures within large groups of people, could they be used to evolve and prove those structures, and could the mechanisms of self-organisation within a forum be mapped back onto the real world. It's not as crazy a thought as you might imagine, the seed is there and the tools do not support the way people are already trying to work. The tools today hold people back from what they naturally try to do, but if the tools supported people better things could be different.
      - ntoshev 13y ago
        Both HN and Facebook are not regular forums (they have distinct features). If you are trying to change politics with software, perhaps a good way to approach the problem is to try solving something specific, then build the community and write the code to do precisely that. One example is gathering support for specific campaigns. I live in Bulgaria, we have active protest movement against the current government, and a lot of the coordination and debate happens on Facebook. I had a specific campaign in mind that didn't happen for legal reasons, but it would have been very interesting otherwise. Send me a mail if you want to know more. I think it's a mistake to think about real and virtual world as separate things. We live in a single world, and the online part grows more important with time. There are bits that are quite independent from the offline part, like interacting on HN with pseudonyms. Other bits, like Facebook, are typically much closer and interconnected with our offline life. Some mobile apps are even more integrated with the real world, although they are not very social.

by buro9 13y ago

svenkatesh 13y ago

Er... you think you're startup (microcosm), which is glorified forum software, will change "political systems, the structure of them and how populaces engage with them?"

buro9 13y ago
Take an interest in anthropology and observe how communities interact and shape the environment (and systems of hierarchy and control) around them, and then consider how software can influence interactions. Not that I'd argue with you with where we're at today. The destination may be over the horizon, but the first milestone is right in front of us and looks like we've barely moved. Which is true.
- ntoshev 13y ago
  The internet does rewire the fabric of society. Facebook has a big role in modern revolutions. I'm just skeptical that the forum format has the potential to bring further material advances.
  - buro9 13y ago
    I guess a question could be asked about whether Hacker News has had any impact at all. Has it brought people together, in ways that has fostered new innovation or the creation of companies or approaches to ideas, or resulted in any political lobbying whatsoever on any front? Almost regardless of how impact is quantified, the answer is going to be yes. Looking at any influential forum within any given vertical, that same pattern is repeated over and over. Impact is material and real, when enough people with a shared interest come together. Could the impact have been more measurable if the technology that powers forums been more supportive of the users needs? Again it's hard to answer that software that more easily helps pull people together in the real (as well as in the virtual) world and strengthen those bonds within a community wouldn't have more impact than software that didn't. Forums are impactful, and do bring about advances. But currently only in small groups and without the impact or advances being accessible to other groups. The question isn't whether this happens in forums, but whether it's possible to encourage it to happen and what may emerge if it happens more often in similar ways. Could forums be used as a testing ground for new political structures within large groups of people, could they be used to evolve and prove those structures, and could the mechanisms of self-organisation within a forum be mapped back onto the real world. It's not as crazy a thought as you might imagine, the seed is there and the tools do not support the way people are already trying to work. The tools today hold people back from what they naturally try to do, but if the tools supported people better things could be different.
    - ntoshev 13y ago
      Both HN and Facebook are not regular forums (they have distinct features). If you are trying to change politics with software, perhaps a good way to approach the problem is to try solving something specific, then build the community and write the code to do precisely that. One example is gathering support for specific campaigns. I live in Bulgaria, we have active protest movement against the current government, and a lot of the coordination and debate happens on Facebook. I had a specific campaign in mind that didn't happen for legal reasons, but it would have been very interesting otherwise. Send me a mail if you want to know more. I think it's a mistake to think about real and virtual world as separate things. We live in a single world, and the online part grows more important with time. There are bits that are quite independent from the offline part, like interacting on HN with pseudonyms. Other bits, like Facebook, are typically much closer and interconnected with our offline life. Some mobile apps are even more integrated with the real world, although they are not very social.