5 ms·

Really? Think about all of the good the industries have brought to the world and all of the good they still can bring! Film and music are driving forces for so

by ztratar 13y ago

Really? Think about all of the good the industries have brought to the world and all of the good they still can bring! Film and music are driving forces for society. We need them. Their own ignorance and inability towards copyright form sucks. I agree. I don't think that should doom them into obsolesence. I'll also argue that wouldn't happen. They would, somewhat righteously, kick and scream until copyright law tramples on internet freedom.

Karunamon 13y ago
We need art. We do not need out of touch, culturally hostile, value-destroying, rent-seeking middlemen to make art happen. Every single technological leap has been vehemently opposed by these dinosaurs. Without fail. I don't know. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I believe less and less that the industry cartels' behavior is about simple shortsightedness and greed, and more and more that their behavior is about control of human culture and suppression of culture they don't control.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  Bleh. Most media right now is available digitally. Don't equate the entire box office at the theater not being available right now on Netflix for $7/month as them being a dinosaur, it is because doing so would be terrible for their bottom line. No one would be paying $20 for a BluRay or $7-12 for a movie ticket if everything was available right now in HD at your house for a flat fee.
- happyscrappy 13y ago
  >suppression of culture they don't control What example are you thinking of?
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    A great deal of art is iterative, and the copyright maximalists in the industry groups seem to have no concept of "fair use". Always more restrictions, always more things protected, always less and less allowed. Think of it as the cultural equivalent of the patent minefield one steps into whenever they do something novel with some existing technology.
    - happyscrappy 13y ago
      There is plenty of culture that they don't control that is thriving, no need to exaggerate their power.
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        There is plenty of technology that isn't covered via patent, either. That doesn't mean isn't still easy to step on someone else's copyright (or in some cases trademark) and your recourse is precisely jack and squat. I'd think it's ideal to identify and stomp out overreach while it's still a smaller thing and before it's a much greater thing...
- mr_spothawk 13y ago
  I'm buying whatever sort of soap you're selling. What the Author of the link seems to be suggesting is that we want these moviemakers to survive. I'm not sure that's been settled.
JoshTriplett 13y ago
> Film and music are driving forces for society. We need them. Absolutely, but you seem to have equated those creative activities with the current organizations built around the previous distribution models for the output. We need the creative activities, but we now have a huge number of ways to directly connect people creating film and music with people who want to watch them.
maxerickson 13y ago
Decent music doesn't need a big budget. I don't mean that as an argument for or against taking it without the permission of the copyright holder, I mean that destruction of the current music production industry isn't going to take music away from society.
TheCraiggers 13y ago
You seem to think that the MPAA == movies && RIAA == music. That is simply not true. Movies existed long before the MPAA, and music existed before publishing studios of any sort. We don't need them. Music has especially made some good strides in the last few years with self-published music. Not only that, but there are some publishers that don't belong to the RIAA. That may or may not make them better; I can't prove they're not lobbying right alongside the RIAA anyway, but I digress. I'll admit that movies are a bit behind music in this regard. Blockbusters simply cost more to make than music. Still, even if studios are needed for the huge-budget movies, they aren't needed in our goddamned government. Besides, indie films (many of which receive numerous awards every year) are low budget affairs. I enjoy the brainless action movie as much as the next hairy male, but I'd argue society needs less of those and more of the kind that make you think. That's something we seem to be forgetting how to do.
jessaustin 13y ago
They would, somewhat righteously, kick and scream until copyright law tramples on internet freedom. So, in order to defend our principles, we should surrender our principles? This doesn't make sense, except from a specific, non-principled point of view.

by ztratar 13y ago

Karunamon 13y ago

We need art. We do not need out of touch, culturally hostile, value-destroying, rent-seeking middlemen to make art happen. Every single technological leap has been vehemently opposed by these dinosaurs. Without fail. I don't know. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I believe less and less that the industry cartels' behavior is about simple shortsightedness and greed, and more and more that their behavior is about control of human culture and suppression of culture they don't control.

res0nat0r 13y ago
Bleh. Most media right now is available digitally. Don't equate the entire box office at the theater not being available right now on Netflix for $7/month as them being a dinosaur, it is because doing so would be terrible for their bottom line. No one would be paying $20 for a BluRay or $7-12 for a movie ticket if everything was available right now in HD at your house for a flat fee.
happyscrappy 13y ago
>suppression of culture they don't control What example are you thinking of?
- Karunamon 13y ago
  A great deal of art is iterative, and the copyright maximalists in the industry groups seem to have no concept of "fair use". Always more restrictions, always more things protected, always less and less allowed. Think of it as the cultural equivalent of the patent minefield one steps into whenever they do something novel with some existing technology.
  - happyscrappy 13y ago
    There is plenty of culture that they don't control that is thriving, no need to exaggerate their power.
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      There is plenty of technology that isn't covered via patent, either. That doesn't mean isn't still easy to step on someone else's copyright (or in some cases trademark) and your recourse is precisely jack and squat. I'd think it's ideal to identify and stomp out overreach while it's still a smaller thing and before it's a much greater thing...
mr_spothawk 13y ago
I'm buying whatever sort of soap you're selling. What the Author of the link seems to be suggesting is that we want these moviemakers to survive. I'm not sure that's been settled.

JoshTriplett 13y ago

> Film and music are driving forces for society. We need them. Absolutely, but you seem to have equated those creative activities with the current organizations built around the previous distribution models for the output. We need the creative activities, but we now have a huge number of ways to directly connect people creating film and music with people who want to watch them.

maxerickson 13y ago

Decent music doesn't need a big budget. I don't mean that as an argument for or against taking it without the permission of the copyright holder, I mean that destruction of the current music production industry isn't going to take music away from society.

TheCraiggers 13y ago

You seem to think that the MPAA == movies && RIAA == music. That is simply not true. Movies existed long before the MPAA, and music existed before publishing studios of any sort. We don't need them. Music has especially made some good strides in the last few years with self-published music. Not only that, but there are some publishers that don't belong to the RIAA. That may or may not make them better; I can't prove they're not lobbying right alongside the RIAA anyway, but I digress. I'll admit that movies are a bit behind music in this regard. Blockbusters simply cost more to make than music. Still, even if studios are needed for the huge-budget movies, they aren't needed in our goddamned government. Besides, indie films (many of which receive numerous awards every year) are low budget affairs. I enjoy the brainless action movie as much as the next hairy male, but I'd argue society needs less of those and more of the kind that make you think. That's something we seem to be forgetting how to do.

jessaustin 13y ago

They would, somewhat righteously, kick and scream until copyright law tramples on internet freedom. So, in order to defend our principles, we should surrender our principles? This doesn't make sense, except from a specific, non-principled point of view.