4 ms·

As someone who had to deal with legal troubles when running a user facing service I can say that it's not that easy if you don't have resources (or knowledge/ti

by jinzo 13y ago

As someone who had to deal with legal troubles when running a user facing service I can say that it's not that easy if you don't have resources (or knowledge/time) to response correctly to the legal inquiries. For example, a relatively small (by internet standards) "local" forum has a somehow dedicated (it's not their full time job) 3 man legal team that answers all the legal inquiries. If I add one of the latest in the series of my own experiences. Once upon a time someone wanted to scam me on a website deal. We figured out who it was (it was easy, he was the owner of the domain, paid for the hosting etc.) and published the details (we were not the first, he's quite a known scammer around here, we found numerous blogposts about him). He was even featured in a local newspaper. Fast forward 5 or so years and I get a Cease and Desist letter from him (or something looking like that) that the information in my blog post is not accurate and he will sue me. I quickly see that google doesen't bring much about him nowadays, in part to people not caring for their blogs/doing redesigns and in part of him sending out "scary" letters. Of course I could fight it, I had a lot of concrete (I was told court grade by some lawyer acquaintances) proofs. But was it worth my time? My effort? My psych? No. I redacted the blog post and let it be. I don't feel good about it, because that means he will try to scam people that could'we been warned from my post. But I wagered it and left it all behind. EDIT: grammar n'stuff

unclebucknasty 13y ago
I cannot think of much that is more thoroughly soul-draining than fighting a legal action that is brought to you. And, the better your case, the more soul-draining it is. I would imagine that it is easy to comply when one knows he is in the wrong. But, when one feels strongly about the cause and is advised that he has an excellent case, then capitulation feels like being bullied and extorted into compromising one's principles. This, even when it is frequently the most prudent thing to do. So, one is left with the sad choice of either compromising his principles or fighting indefinitely at significant cost in time, money, and emotional energy.
debacle 13y ago
The only reason legal bullying works is because so many people capitulate at the first sign of conflict.
- unclebucknasty 13y ago
  Not sure if you've ever been involved in a suit, but the "first sign of conflict" is a critical juncture. Perhaps the most critical. And, in many cases, your decision is a function of simple math. Once you proceed past the "first sign of conflict", you will quickly sink a lot of cash. You don't get a refund if you later decide to stop, nor any other credit. That money is gone and either you keep going until you a.) win (or lose) a protracted, costly battle; b.) bankrupt your cash, energy, or will; or c.) find an opportunity to settle and stop the bleeding. By then, the damage is done. So, if you decide to proceed, then you are signing up for significant cost and a ride for which you have limited control. They will keep throwing stuff at you to entangle and frustrate you. If you take the suit as far as discovery, then you can get into the high 6-figure or even 7-figure range before you know it. And, before you get to discovery, the motions, counter-motions, and other pleadings can easily get you to six figures within a few short months or less (depending on the complexity of the case). If you are a small business, it can be a non-starter, especially when the plaintiff is a much larger (and hostile) company. I've been through it personally and I decided not to "capitulate at the first sign of conflict". I was pissed, they were wrong, I wouldn't be bullied, etc. So, I fought it. We handily beat them back on the initial injunction they were seeking. Based on the merit, we knew we'd win that easily. Still, it cost me ~$20K to actually do it. It doesn't matter how weak their case is. They can make you bleed to prove it. The standard for having the suit labeled frivolous is extraordinarily high and you almost assuredly will not recover your legal fees. We kept fighting, using some of the foundation (research, etc.) laid during the injunction battle to reduce costs. Still, by the time, we reached the mandatory (in the state of CA) settlement conference (where we decided to settle), we were out over $100K. So, that was the price of "not capitulating at the first sign of conflict". Of course, we didn't have to concede everything they initially demanded, but that small victory felt a bit Pyrrhic. And, none of this cost includes the time, mental energy, and stress involved. If you are running a small business, you likely don't have time/energy for it. So, beyond literally bankrupting you, it can damage your business (perhaps irreparably) in other ways.
- prawn 13y ago
  My strategy, if I can't talk people out of their legal threats and requests for content removal, is to replace the content with something like "Content removed at the request of [fullname]." I figure that anyone likely to have taken warning from the original content having find it on Google will potentially get the same from that notice. e.g., if they're asking for stuff to be removed, maybe there's something going on. Source: I've run a public forum with anonymous posting for about 10 years and get regular legal/removal threats. Had four in one day the other week. None have ever proceeded beyond a threatening letter from a lawyer and most don't get past "I've printed this out and I'm taking it to my lawyer."

by jinzo 13y ago

unclebucknasty 13y ago

I cannot think of much that is more thoroughly soul-draining than fighting a legal action that is brought to you. And, the better your case, the more soul-draining it is. I would imagine that it is easy to comply when one knows he is in the wrong. But, when one feels strongly about the cause and is advised that he has an excellent case, then capitulation feels like being bullied and extorted into compromising one's principles. This, even when it is frequently the most prudent thing to do. So, one is left with the sad choice of either compromising his principles or fighting indefinitely at significant cost in time, money, and emotional energy.

debacle 13y ago

The only reason legal bullying works is because so many people capitulate at the first sign of conflict.

unclebucknasty 13y ago
Not sure if you've ever been involved in a suit, but the "first sign of conflict" is a critical juncture. Perhaps the most critical. And, in many cases, your decision is a function of simple math. Once you proceed past the "first sign of conflict", you will quickly sink a lot of cash. You don't get a refund if you later decide to stop, nor any other credit. That money is gone and either you keep going until you a.) win (or lose) a protracted, costly battle; b.) bankrupt your cash, energy, or will; or c.) find an opportunity to settle and stop the bleeding. By then, the damage is done. So, if you decide to proceed, then you are signing up for significant cost and a ride for which you have limited control. They will keep throwing stuff at you to entangle and frustrate you. If you take the suit as far as discovery, then you can get into the high 6-figure or even 7-figure range before you know it. And, before you get to discovery, the motions, counter-motions, and other pleadings can easily get you to six figures within a few short months or less (depending on the complexity of the case). If you are a small business, it can be a non-starter, especially when the plaintiff is a much larger (and hostile) company. I've been through it personally and I decided not to "capitulate at the first sign of conflict". I was pissed, they were wrong, I wouldn't be bullied, etc. So, I fought it. We handily beat them back on the initial injunction they were seeking. Based on the merit, we knew we'd win that easily. Still, it cost me ~$20K to actually do it. It doesn't matter how weak their case is. They can make you bleed to prove it. The standard for having the suit labeled frivolous is extraordinarily high and you almost assuredly will not recover your legal fees. We kept fighting, using some of the foundation (research, etc.) laid during the injunction battle to reduce costs. Still, by the time, we reached the mandatory (in the state of CA) settlement conference (where we decided to settle), we were out over $100K. So, that was the price of "not capitulating at the first sign of conflict". Of course, we didn't have to concede everything they initially demanded, but that small victory felt a bit Pyrrhic. And, none of this cost includes the time, mental energy, and stress involved. If you are running a small business, you likely don't have time/energy for it. So, beyond literally bankrupting you, it can damage your business (perhaps irreparably) in other ways.
prawn 13y ago
My strategy, if I can't talk people out of their legal threats and requests for content removal, is to replace the content with something like "Content removed at the request of [fullname]." I figure that anyone likely to have taken warning from the original content having find it on Google will potentially get the same from that notice. e.g., if they're asking for stuff to be removed, maybe there's something going on. Source: I've run a public forum with anonymous posting for about 10 years and get regular legal/removal threats. Had four in one day the other week. None have ever proceeded beyond a threatening letter from a lawyer and most don't get past "I've printed this out and I'm taking it to my lawyer."