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Living in an European country and having some experience with unions by hearing stories and watching the news - first of all, unions are highly political and ar

Living in an European country and having some experience with unions by hearing stories and watching the news - first of all, unions are highly political and aren't really meant for the protection of the employees. Also, the existence of unions ends up working against the public's interest. Tell me, what scenario is better for the economy, for taxpayers, for you - (a) company fires 10,000 people and survives, (b) company goes bankrupt, or (c) company receives government bailout and execs go home with fat bonuses. In the end, it's a harsh world we live in and we have to cope with it. I don't know what I'll do when I'll be 50, but seeing all the morons that do have jobs, I have high hopes that even if I won't be able to do software development anymore, I'll be able to change my line of work - because seriously, software developers are amongst the most adaptable people of all industries - think about how many times you had to go in depth to understand a business model, in order to build some software for it. Or maybe I'll be fucked. But one thing I did learn in my 10 years of experience is that successful people in general find time to market themselves, to do networking, etc... even if they don't need to do it.

Curmudgel 13y ago
> Living in an European country and having some experience with unions by hearing stories and watching the news - first of all, unions are highly political and aren't really meant for the protection of the employees. That's a bit like saying "I read the news, and I've come to the conclusion that all corporations are plagued by internecine war and exist to steal money." Unions were formed to protect employees. Yes, some unions have become corrupt and greedy, but that does not mean all unions are corrupt and greedy. > Or maybe I'll be fucked. But one thing I did learn in my 10 years of experience is that successful people in general find time to market themselves, to do networking, etc... even if they don't need to do it. The disgusting "anti-poaching" hiring scandal in Silicon Valley that involved almost all of the big companies, e.g. Google, Apple, Adobe, etc. mulcting around 100,000 employees for billions of dollars of wages for several years is good evidence that self-marketing skills are valueless when companies illegally discriminate against you and refuse to hire you because of your employment history. Thousands of talented engineers could not negotiate, switch companies and adapt because the disgusting avarice of the former CEO of Apple prevented them from doing so.
bgarbiak 13y ago
having some experience with unions by hearing stories and watching the news That's not really an experience, is it? Yeah, I heard lot of dark stories about unions as well (corruption, nepotism, violence, dirty politics, mafia connections - usually it's one out of these), and there's a lot to improve but then again: unlike governments and corporations unions don't own powerful media outlets to fix their PR, do they? Also, who says the developers' union has to be like the other unions. After all we are the people who "think different". Anyway, just take a look how it works in Hollywood. Basically the only profession there which doesn't have its strong union/guild are the special effects people. And while the movie mega-corporations make billions on superhero franchises the FX companies go bust one after another.[1][2] Do you remember the Writers' Strike?[3] The corporations agreed to share their profits with writers only after 12 000 union members were striking for over 3 months. Another example: the case of Julie Ann Horvath at GitHub. She asked HR to be a mediator between her and the company's founder[4]. She cried during that meeting and HR did nothing. I wouldn't blame them, they too risked their employment there. That's unions job, that what unions are needed for: to protect you from your employer. In the end, it's a harsh world we live in and we have to cope with it. So, why don't we make things a bit easier for ourselves? Historically, every major technological advancement (industrial revolution, introduction of cars, and so on) poured vast new wealth into the hands of entrepreneurs and investors, while common workers either lost their jobs or had to work much harder. That's when unions were "invented", that's when eight-hour working day was fought for[5] - basically that's when current shape of the Western society was molded. We have various means that protect the existence of the middle class[6] to this day. Yet, we now observe a new industrial revolution and - that amazes me - the hard-workers that propel this revolution are voluntarily waiving their most valuable rights. Not only that, they (we!) are more eager to defend billion dollar corporations' not paying a cent of taxes than to ask for medical aid for a colleague. software developers are amongst the most adaptable people of all industries When you're 40-50, got over 20 years of experience, two kids in high school/college and a mortgage the last thing you ever want is to adapt to a new line of work and start from scratch. This one, I believe, don't need a citation. 1) http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323864304578316414057909902 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732386430... 2) http://www.ibtimes.com/vfx-oscars-march-visual-effects-workers-plan-academy-awards-protest-hollywood-corporate-welfare http://www.ibtimes.com/vfx-oscars-march-visual-effects-worke... 3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_Americ... 4) http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes-sexism-and-intimidation-behind-her-github-exit/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes... 5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day 6) http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/who-owns-the-future-jaron-lanier/1114146780 http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/who-owns-the-future-jaron-la...

Curmudgel 13y ago

> Living in an European country and having some experience with unions by hearing stories and watching the news - first of all, unions are highly political and aren't really meant for the protection of the employees. That's a bit like saying "I read the news, and I've come to the conclusion that all corporations are plagued by internecine war and exist to steal money." Unions were formed to protect employees. Yes, some unions have become corrupt and greedy, but that does not mean all unions are corrupt and greedy. > Or maybe I'll be fucked. But one thing I did learn in my 10 years of experience is that successful people in general find time to market themselves, to do networking, etc... even if they don't need to do it. The disgusting "anti-poaching" hiring scandal in Silicon Valley that involved almost all of the big companies, e.g. Google, Apple, Adobe, etc. mulcting around 100,000 employees for billions of dollars of wages for several years is good evidence that self-marketing skills are valueless when companies illegally discriminate against you and refuse to hire you because of your employment history. Thousands of talented engineers could not negotiate, switch companies and adapt because the disgusting avarice of the former CEO of Apple prevented them from doing so.

bgarbiak 13y ago

having some experience with unions by hearing stories and watching the news That's not really an experience, is it? Yeah, I heard lot of dark stories about unions as well (corruption, nepotism, violence, dirty politics, mafia connections - usually it's one out of these), and there's a lot to improve but then again: unlike governments and corporations unions don't own powerful media outlets to fix their PR, do they? Also, who says the developers' union has to be like the other unions. After all we are the people who "think different". Anyway, just take a look how it works in Hollywood. Basically the only profession there which doesn't have its strong union/guild are the special effects people. And while the movie mega-corporations make billions on superhero franchises the FX companies go bust one after another.[1][2] Do you remember the Writers' Strike?[3] The corporations agreed to share their profits with writers only after 12 000 union members were striking for over 3 months. Another example: the case of Julie Ann Horvath at GitHub. She asked HR to be a mediator between her and the company's founder[4]. She cried during that meeting and HR did nothing. I wouldn't blame them, they too risked their employment there. That's unions job, that what unions are needed for: to protect you from your employer. In the end, it's a harsh world we live in and we have to cope with it. So, why don't we make things a bit easier for ourselves? Historically, every major technological advancement (industrial revolution, introduction of cars, and so on) poured vast new wealth into the hands of entrepreneurs and investors, while common workers either lost their jobs or had to work much harder. That's when unions were "invented", that's when eight-hour working day was fought for[5] - basically that's when current shape of the Western society was molded. We have various means that protect the existence of the middle class[6] to this day. Yet, we now observe a new industrial revolution and - that amazes me - the hard-workers that propel this revolution are voluntarily waiving their most valuable rights. Not only that, they (we!) are more eager to defend billion dollar corporations' not paying a cent of taxes than to ask for medical aid for a colleague. software developers are amongst the most adaptable people of all industries When you're 40-50, got over 20 years of experience, two kids in high school/college and a mortgage the last thing you ever want is to adapt to a new line of work and start from scratch. This one, I believe, don't need a citation. 1) http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323864304578316414057909902 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142412788732386430... 2) http://www.ibtimes.com/vfx-oscars-march-visual-effects-workers-plan-academy-awards-protest-hollywood-corporate-welfare http://www.ibtimes.com/vfx-oscars-march-visual-effects-worke... 3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_Americ... 4) http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes-sexism-and-intimidation-behind-her-github-exit/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes... 5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day 6) http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/who-owns-the-future-jaron-lanier/1114146780 http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/who-owns-the-future-jaron-la...