4 ms·

Mozilla, Google, and Opera announce support for built-in 3D graphics

25 points by marcusbooster 17y ago

nazgulnarsil 17y ago
venturebeat takes forever to load, I wonder how long 3d pages will take to load...
- omouse 17y ago
  For-fucking-ever, and I just can't wait till marketing people force ugly 3d advertisements on us...
tvon 17y ago
If Google is adding it to Chrome, I would expect it to end up in Webkit before long.
modeless 17y ago
Something that might not be obvious is that, since shaders will be supported, this will also enable GPGPU from Javascript. If JIT-compiled Javascript is still too slow for you, you'll now have the option of running your code on the massively parallel vector co-processor that's in nearly every modern PC. The obvious next step in this direction is OpenCL. WebKit has been implementing a different approach, doing 3D effects via CSS. I think both approaches to 3D are useful in different contexts and they should both be implemented. http://webkit.org/blog/386/3d-transforms/ http://webkit.org/blog/386/3d-transforms/
olefoo 17y ago
I think that the omission of Microsoft is rather deliberate; this is the next phase of the browser wars. Hopefully there's enough of an installed base of sites that work with WebGL that when Microsoft launches it's catchup version it's as much of an epic flop as WindowsME. Or Microsoft could get on board and not attempt to piss in the pool yet again; stranger things have happened.
- jseifer 17y ago
  Microsoft will have to get on board. It's pretty much a given that this will go in the Chrome OS, so I can't imagine MS just letting google check off that feature.
  - trezor 17y ago
    Not diasgreeing with your main point (that MS will have to go with the same standards as everyone else), I think you wastly overestimate the importance and impact Chrome OS will have. Chrome OS will be the most niché OS ever, just slightly ahead of Linux in the client-market.
- tybris 17y ago
  Actually, I don't think Microsoft cares that much about their browser. It's not like it makes them any money. It was a selling point for their OS. Now there are plenty of alternative selling points.
  - GrandMasterBirt 17y ago
    IE Absolutely makes billions for microsoft.... What does IE mean? 1) Your clients need windows to run it. 2) Your developers need windows to test it. 3) They can plug in some of their technologies like .Net which runs on windows servers. 4) Clients that are used to IE (dumb users) will use it at home too because its "their browser". 5) Windows also means MS Office usually (though a separate issue). So yea how is that not their core business model?
omouse 17y ago
I don't see why having 3d stuff in a browser as a plug-in is a problem. It wasn't a problem for Java Applets (Java is installed on almost every computer I've ever run across), same deal for Flash.
- tybris 17y ago
  Probably to gain that 10 seconds worth of load-time, which is enough time for people to close your site many, many times. It's a tragedy really. I stopped using Cybertown over 10 years ago. A 3D virtual community accessed in your browser using a VRML plug-in. Today we apparently get excited if our browsers display floating circles.
  - omouse 17y ago
    We're turning retarded obviously. As we age on the Internet, our brains turn to mush because of all the lolcats and other stuff that creeps out of 4chan and into our eyes. Thus we are more accepting of browser "improvements" when even an Amiga can do better!
leej 17y ago
i dont get this 3d in browser thing. apart from games what is the killer application? putting every possible tech into browser is just plain BS. they make browser heavy and heavy in each major release thats why I returned to FF3 and i am not alone. p.s: in future we would have browser containing drivers and bios. the ultimate BrowSer.
- Xixi 17y ago
  Putting every single thing in the browser is exactly what Google wants to do with its future (if ever released) Google Chrome OS. From a business point of view, this way of doing things is probably seen as a good way to prevent software piracy: keep lots of things on the server side...
  - omouse 17y ago
    It's a good way to prevent you from using the personal computer to its fullest potential.
- Shorel 17y ago
  It's simply the only way to break MS-API monopoly. Would MS not be so entrenched and unbeatable in the desktop apps market, other approaches would work.
  - omouse 17y ago
    WTF are you talking about? Go have a coffee and explain yourself. There is no MS API monopoly, almost all of the games I've seen use OpenGL and maybe some magic with the help of the video card instructions (shader languages, GPUs blah blah blah).
calcnerd256 17y ago
Maybe people will stop using gaming as an excuse to run Windows. Yeah, I know, they won't, but still, one can dream.

25 points by marcusbooster 17y ago

nazgulnarsil 17y ago

venturebeat takes forever to load, I wonder how long 3d pages will take to load...

omouse 17y ago
For-fucking-ever, and I just can't wait till marketing people force ugly 3d advertisements on us...

tvon 17y ago

If Google is adding it to Chrome, I would expect it to end up in Webkit before long.

modeless 17y ago

Something that might not be obvious is that, since shaders will be supported, this will also enable GPGPU from Javascript. If JIT-compiled Javascript is still too slow for you, you'll now have the option of running your code on the massively parallel vector co-processor that's in nearly every modern PC. The obvious next step in this direction is OpenCL. WebKit has been implementing a different approach, doing 3D effects via CSS. I think both approaches to 3D are useful in different contexts and they should both be implemented. http://webkit.org/blog/386/3d-transforms/ http://webkit.org/blog/386/3d-transforms/

olefoo 17y ago

I think that the omission of Microsoft is rather deliberate; this is the next phase of the browser wars. Hopefully there's enough of an installed base of sites that work with WebGL that when Microsoft launches it's catchup version it's as much of an epic flop as WindowsME. Or Microsoft could get on board and not attempt to piss in the pool yet again; stranger things have happened.

jseifer 17y ago
Microsoft will have to get on board. It's pretty much a given that this will go in the Chrome OS, so I can't imagine MS just letting google check off that feature.
- trezor 17y ago
  Not diasgreeing with your main point (that MS will have to go with the same standards as everyone else), I think you wastly overestimate the importance and impact Chrome OS will have. Chrome OS will be the most niché OS ever, just slightly ahead of Linux in the client-market.
tybris 17y ago
Actually, I don't think Microsoft cares that much about their browser. It's not like it makes them any money. It was a selling point for their OS. Now there are plenty of alternative selling points.
- GrandMasterBirt 17y ago
  IE Absolutely makes billions for microsoft.... What does IE mean? 1) Your clients need windows to run it. 2) Your developers need windows to test it. 3) They can plug in some of their technologies like .Net which runs on windows servers. 4) Clients that are used to IE (dumb users) will use it at home too because its "their browser". 5) Windows also means MS Office usually (though a separate issue). So yea how is that not their core business model?

omouse 17y ago

I don't see why having 3d stuff in a browser as a plug-in is a problem. It wasn't a problem for Java Applets (Java is installed on almost every computer I've ever run across), same deal for Flash.

tybris 17y ago
Probably to gain that 10 seconds worth of load-time, which is enough time for people to close your site many, many times. It's a tragedy really. I stopped using Cybertown over 10 years ago. A 3D virtual community accessed in your browser using a VRML plug-in. Today we apparently get excited if our browsers display floating circles.
- omouse 17y ago
  We're turning retarded obviously. As we age on the Internet, our brains turn to mush because of all the lolcats and other stuff that creeps out of 4chan and into our eyes. Thus we are more accepting of browser "improvements" when even an Amiga can do better!

leej 17y ago

i dont get this 3d in browser thing. apart from games what is the killer application? putting every possible tech into browser is just plain BS. they make browser heavy and heavy in each major release thats why I returned to FF3 and i am not alone. p.s: in future we would have browser containing drivers and bios. the ultimate BrowSer.

Xixi 17y ago
Putting every single thing in the browser is exactly what Google wants to do with its future (if ever released) Google Chrome OS. From a business point of view, this way of doing things is probably seen as a good way to prevent software piracy: keep lots of things on the server side...
- omouse 17y ago
  It's a good way to prevent you from using the personal computer to its fullest potential.
Shorel 17y ago
It's simply the only way to break MS-API monopoly. Would MS not be so entrenched and unbeatable in the desktop apps market, other approaches would work.
- omouse 17y ago
  WTF are you talking about? Go have a coffee and explain yourself. There is no MS API monopoly, almost all of the games I've seen use OpenGL and maybe some magic with the help of the video card instructions (shader languages, GPUs blah blah blah).

calcnerd256 17y ago

Maybe people will stop using gaming as an excuse to run Windows. Yeah, I know, they won't, but still, one can dream.