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At least you responsibly considered this. Having a family is a big deal in Utah, and we have too many people who just go for it in their early 20s, no college,

At least you responsibly considered this. Having a family is a big deal in Utah, and we have too many people who just go for it in their early 20s, no college, no career path. It doesn't end well. I'm not anti-family, but I resent the attitude here that it's something you have to do, or even some sort of god-given right. Families should be well-planned. Quality over quantity of life. Just my thoughts. Idk.

humanrebar 13y ago
That's one way of looking at things. Another is that countries like Japan are having huge issues because nobody is having kids anymore. Quantity of life matters, too. But I agree that people should be wiser about planning their lives out. I'm not sure that's a solvable problem, though.
- lsc 13y ago
  >Another is that countries like Japan are having huge issues because nobody is having kids anymore. Eh, I think Japan's problem is more that they have a very narrow idea (ethnically speaking) as to what they want Japanese people to look like. If they were willing to loosen up a bit on that, there are plenty of people who would be willing to come, become Japanese, and if it's anything like immigration here in the US, probably have a fair number of children.
  - Mz 13y ago
    Or maybe being a heavily populated island nation is the root of their problems, both in terms of what kind of person they find acceptable and how many people can be tolerated in the limited space they have.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- VaedaStrike 13y ago
  Japan will not survive in any real way, demographic numbers are such that whatever might survive will not look very much like Japan does now. They simply are not having enough kids, and have been on that path for a very long time with no sign of the dramatic change they would need to survive.
rayiner 13y ago
> Quality over quantity of life. There's a certain level of elitism in this thinking, namely in the fact that educated, wealthier people tend to underestimate how happy poor people are. To a point, wealthier people are happier and worry less, but I don't think it's in practice so much more that say one wealthy, well-educated person has more total happiness than two poor people. It circles back to kids. There are a lot of things in my life, in terms of education and career path that make me happy. I worked very hard in grad school for several years and got exactly the job I wanted, and that accomplishment makes me happy. But my daughter makes me much happier than that, and she was the product of five minutes and something it takes no education or intelligence to do...
- humanrebar 13y ago
  Also, childless people, on average, will cost more to society than they contribute. To be conservative, pension programs (including social security) rely on there being at least as many people around in the future to pay the bills. If you don't have any kids, someone else's kids are paying the bills. In a vacuum, if a couple has only one child, that child had better grow up to support those two people in retirement. If four grandparents only have one grandchild, it's even worse. The current answers to that problem are immigration (in which case someone else is still paying for benefits) or incredibly low take-home pay for workers (lots of withholding for personal or public retirement funds).
  - dublinben 13y ago
    On the other hand, the most significant way you can reduce your environmental impact (short of ending your own life) is to not have children. In that regard, it's the most responsible decision anyone can make.
    - humanrebar 13y ago
      By that logic, suicide is the most responsible decision anyone can make.
  - vacri 13y ago

humanrebar 13y ago

That's one way of looking at things. Another is that countries like Japan are having huge issues because nobody is having kids anymore. Quantity of life matters, too. But I agree that people should be wiser about planning their lives out. I'm not sure that's a solvable problem, though.

lsc 13y ago
>Another is that countries like Japan are having huge issues because nobody is having kids anymore. Eh, I think Japan's problem is more that they have a very narrow idea (ethnically speaking) as to what they want Japanese people to look like. If they were willing to loosen up a bit on that, there are plenty of people who would be willing to come, become Japanese, and if it's anything like immigration here in the US, probably have a fair number of children.
- Mz 13y ago
  Or maybe being a heavily populated island nation is the root of their problems, both in terms of what kind of person they find acceptable and how many people can be tolerated in the limited space they have.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
VaedaStrike 13y ago
Japan will not survive in any real way, demographic numbers are such that whatever might survive will not look very much like Japan does now. They simply are not having enough kids, and have been on that path for a very long time with no sign of the dramatic change they would need to survive.

rayiner 13y ago

> Quality over quantity of life. There's a certain level of elitism in this thinking, namely in the fact that educated, wealthier people tend to underestimate how happy poor people are. To a point, wealthier people are happier and worry less, but I don't think it's in practice so much more that say one wealthy, well-educated person has more total happiness than two poor people. It circles back to kids. There are a lot of things in my life, in terms of education and career path that make me happy. I worked very hard in grad school for several years and got exactly the job I wanted, and that accomplishment makes me happy. But my daughter makes me much happier than that, and she was the product of five minutes and something it takes no education or intelligence to do...

humanrebar 13y ago
Also, childless people, on average, will cost more to society than they contribute. To be conservative, pension programs (including social security) rely on there being at least as many people around in the future to pay the bills. If you don't have any kids, someone else's kids are paying the bills. In a vacuum, if a couple has only one child, that child had better grow up to support those two people in retirement. If four grandparents only have one grandchild, it's even worse. The current answers to that problem are immigration (in which case someone else is still paying for benefits) or incredibly low take-home pay for workers (lots of withholding for personal or public retirement funds).
- dublinben 13y ago
  On the other hand, the most significant way you can reduce your environmental impact (short of ending your own life) is to not have children. In that regard, it's the most responsible decision anyone can make.
  - humanrebar 13y ago
    By that logic, suicide is the most responsible decision anyone can make.
- vacri 13y ago