3 ms·

I think it is a combination of transmission risk and consequences of acquiring the disease. HIV/AIDS, the risk of transmission is extremely low. Flu the risk is

by conorh 13y ago

I think it is a combination of transmission risk and consequences of acquiring the disease. HIV/AIDS, the risk of transmission is extremely low. Flu the risk is higher, but for (most) strains the consequences are not bad. For some of these other diseases, the transmission rates are high and the consequences can be very bad. If a patient is not vaccinated then the risks climb to the point where I think it is a better decision for them to find care elsewhere (possibly not at your local pediatricians office, but somewhere better prepared, most doctors here haven't seen measles ever). edit: Also your argument for 'not punishing the child' doesn't makes sense to me. Couldn't you also say you are punishing the other vaccinated children by placing them at higher risk?

AnimalMuppet 13y ago
Well, the unvaccinated child is at greater risk for catching the disease for which they did not receive the vaccination. That would seem to pose little risk to the vaccinated children, precisely because those children were vaccinated against that disease.
- kjs3 13y ago
  Unfortunately, that's not how it works. If only unvaccinated kids got the diseases, then we could happily let Darwin deal with the situation. But vaccines are not 100%, and the amount of immunity varies from child to child. The systems works when the percentage of immune children is high enough that the chain of infection is broken before those for whom the vaccine hasn't been effective are exposed (see: Herd Immunity). Anti-vaxers break down this protection, and infect not only the other unvaccinated, but also the vaccinated who don't have full immunity.
kjs3 13y ago
Measles cases in the US in 2011: 222 Flu cases diagnosed in week 7 alone of 2011 (the peak): ~5500 About 115 kids died of influenza in 2011. So. You're wrong about the epidemiology. There's not much reason to think anything handled by vaccines is more transmissive than flu given proper patient management in the doctors office. And by your logic, the doctor should be turning away the dangerous influenza patients, since the actual risk of a child contracting and dying from flu is statistically higher. P.S. - Of course waiting room transmission of AIDS is almost non-existent. I threw in AIDS for two reasons: First, during the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, this exact "fuck those sick kids" rationalization was discussed in exactly these terms, and second, to spot the sort of intellectually dishonest types who would focus on that and conveniently ignore the rest of the argument. You win.
- conorh 13y ago
  Our pediatrician asked us not to bring in our infant on a day when she was treating a lot of flu patients a few years ago, her office has sick and well areas, but it is hard for her to manage. Also please, no stooping to name calling (intellectually dishonest), I know you feel strongly about this, I do too. The wild response to the HIV/Aids epidemic of course made no rational sense at all, even given the little they knew then. I think that you might be setting up an argument that I'm not making, that we should not be treating these patients. I think all patients should be treated, but for highly transmissive diseases with bad consequences then perhaps we should be doing it more carefully than is done at your local pediatrician's office. If you make the choice to go unvaccinated, and thus increasing the risk for others, then you should expect to be handled differently.

by conorh 13y ago

AnimalMuppet 13y ago

Well, the unvaccinated child is at greater risk for catching the disease for which they did not receive the vaccination. That would seem to pose little risk to the vaccinated children, precisely because those children were vaccinated against that disease.

kjs3 13y ago
Unfortunately, that's not how it works. If only unvaccinated kids got the diseases, then we could happily let Darwin deal with the situation. But vaccines are not 100%, and the amount of immunity varies from child to child. The systems works when the percentage of immune children is high enough that the chain of infection is broken before those for whom the vaccine hasn't been effective are exposed (see: Herd Immunity). Anti-vaxers break down this protection, and infect not only the other unvaccinated, but also the vaccinated who don't have full immunity.

kjs3 13y ago

Measles cases in the US in 2011: 222 Flu cases diagnosed in week 7 alone of 2011 (the peak): ~5500 About 115 kids died of influenza in 2011. So. You're wrong about the epidemiology. There's not much reason to think anything handled by vaccines is more transmissive than flu given proper patient management in the doctors office. And by your logic, the doctor should be turning away the dangerous influenza patients, since the actual risk of a child contracting and dying from flu is statistically higher. P.S. - Of course waiting room transmission of AIDS is almost non-existent. I threw in AIDS for two reasons: First, during the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, this exact "fuck those sick kids" rationalization was discussed in exactly these terms, and second, to spot the sort of intellectually dishonest types who would focus on that and conveniently ignore the rest of the argument. You win.

conorh 13y ago
Our pediatrician asked us not to bring in our infant on a day when she was treating a lot of flu patients a few years ago, her office has sick and well areas, but it is hard for her to manage. Also please, no stooping to name calling (intellectually dishonest), I know you feel strongly about this, I do too. The wild response to the HIV/Aids epidemic of course made no rational sense at all, even given the little they knew then. I think that you might be setting up an argument that I'm not making, that we should not be treating these patients. I think all patients should be treated, but for highly transmissive diseases with bad consequences then perhaps we should be doing it more carefully than is done at your local pediatrician's office. If you make the choice to go unvaccinated, and thus increasing the risk for others, then you should expect to be handled differently.