3 ms·

A developer I worked with several companies ago told me the same type of thing about learning OO "Its not necessary just learn to code better". The fact of the

by batoure 13y ago

A developer I worked with several companies ago told me the same type of thing about learning OO "Its not necessary just learn to code better". The fact of the matter is large code bases need to be supported over time by diverse groups of people and frameworks help enforce standards that get people up to speed quickly. That developer I knew, he has been chronically unemployed for the last 5 years because he lacks the skills to work as part of a team. Great coder though!

gedrap 13y ago
I second that. I have met a number of devs who are not idiots, have good analytical thinking, but refuse using frameworks, libraries, etc. The result is unmaintainable code base, which no one wants to maintain, and re-writing is too expensive so the business owner is, well, fucked. The majority of the Web apps is CRUD + a bit of logic. It makes much more sense to use a framework because 1) most of the things are already there 2) easier to maintain for someone from outside 3) and, most importantly, very few developers have skills to create a nice, maintainable design, accompanied with a useful documentation. Yes, in ideal world, maybe you should be able to stay framework-less (just made that word up) but the world isn't ideal. We have to sacrifice philosophical ideals for the business because that's what pays the living. In rare cases, when the app is much more than a simple CRUD, it might make sense to ditch frameworks... But it's very, very rare.
Zelphyr 13y ago
Sorry, he's not a great coder. I think there is a big difference between saying "just learn to code better" and "use the right tool for the job" (which was the intent of my post). I'll add an addendum to my post that frameworks can be the right tool for the job. But 99% of the time they're used the wrong way and for the wrong purpose.

3 ms·

A developer I worked with several companies ago told me the same type of thing about learning OO "Its not necessary just learn to code better". The fact of the

by batoure 13y ago

gedrap 13y ago
I second that. I have met a number of devs who are not idiots, have good analytical thinking, but refuse using frameworks, libraries, etc. The result is unmaintainable code base, which no one wants to maintain, and re-writing is too expensive so the business owner is, well, fucked. The majority of the Web apps is CRUD + a bit of logic. It makes much more sense to use a framework because 1) most of the things are already there 2) easier to maintain for someone from outside 3) and, most importantly, very few developers have skills to create a nice, maintainable design, accompanied with a useful documentation. Yes, in ideal world, maybe you should be able to stay framework-less (just made that word up) but the world isn't ideal. We have to sacrifice philosophical ideals for the business because that's what pays the living. In rare cases, when the app is much more than a simple CRUD, it might make sense to ditch frameworks... But it's very, very rare.
Zelphyr 13y ago
Sorry, he's not a great coder. I think there is a big difference between saying "just learn to code better" and "use the right tool for the job" (which was the intent of my post). I'll add an addendum to my post that frameworks can be the right tool for the job. But 99% of the time they're used the wrong way and for the wrong purpose.