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This blog post expresses little understanding of why these other package managers are used, or even how. They are not supposed to be used to install things und
by pekk 13y ago
This blog post expresses little understanding of why these other package managers are used, or even how.
They are not supposed to be used to install things under (say) /usr at all. That is up to the platform's package manager. If you do that, it's not the tool but you who is being stupid. If this is a real problem for you, why are you putting the person who does this into sudoers on production machines - I assume or anyway hope it is not a real problem for you.
I have any number of command-line tools which depend on recent versions of things, and are not project-specific. I can install them under a prefix that is inside my $HOME.
Or when I make a project, I can make a sandbox where the tools get installed.
And I can deploy it in a sandbox, not haphazardly depending on system versions of everything.
None of these things I am doing to make my life as a developer manageable are harming your "architecture" (scripts to run package managers are architecture now?)
There are good use cases for platform packages. But every little thing should not be done with them. That adds up to a HUGE waste of time, with no real purpose.
When I make projects, I often need them to run against any number of different versions of things. But the most minimal requirement is to be able to use an actually-recent version of a dependency, where the platform you have dictated thinks recent means "6 years old." Neither of these can I do with the existing platform packages. So you demand that I make platform packages for every little tool and dependency I may use. Then, everything I want to use has to run against exactly one set of versions. So you are actually asking me to make my own whole-platform upgrades, or never use recent packages. That's not my job, it's not a sane way for me to do my job, and it actually doesn't benefit you at all. It reflects a really profound lack of understanding not only of my job, but actually also of your own job.
Then as an author of a library or tool I made available for free, you are demanding that to satisfy you I make packages for several different platforms, each with their own idiosyncrasies and versions of everything, and in fact that I package half the universe for each platform since most of them do not have recent versions of anything - or again only ever use 6 year old dependencies. All so that your job never has to go beyond running the One True Package Manager, whatever you think it is.
Then after all this unnecessary pain, your "solution" will require me to run an entire fresh VM for each new thing. Because you have stipulated that I have to dump all my dependencies for every project into one big sewer, it is guaranteed that there will be version conflicts. This is amazingly stupid because the tools already exist to avoid it very easily and people are already using them. And on your side, all you have to complain about is vague bruises to your feelings because not everybody is using the One True Package Manager for every little thing.
There is such a thing as a business listening too much to system administrators, when these system administrators do not at all understand software development, because their motivation is to prevent change and have less to do rather than to facilitate development of the business. When you blast this complaint at the whole community, you are asking for time to stand still and for nobody to develop anything new in the entire community. ALL forward progress must halt in order for you to have less work. It's not happening and it shouldn't happen.
If you are paid to be a system administrator, please perform your function as a system administrator. Please resolve these problems within the framework of your own company's division of labor. If you have to build packages for your production platform, I'm sorry but that's probably part of your job. If you don't like it, please whine to HR instead of whining to HN.
If you think it will be easy to make every language developer use the same package manager as every other language, it should be equally easy to make all the platforms use one package format instead of the arbitrary hell of different ones they are using now. That is going to be your best bet for actually making one true package manager. Good luck.