4 ms·

What if that was a part of the failure?

by peedy 13y ago

lisper 13y ago
There are no failure modes that disable both transponders along with all the rest of the comm gear and all the passenger cell phones that still leave the plane in an airworthy condition.
- tlrobinson 13y ago
  Do cell phones even work at 30,000+ feet? Over the ocean? (No) There was a theory posted here earlier that it was a fire that initially took out the transponder and possibly comms.
  - lisper 13y ago
    Many theories have been posted. The only one consistent with the known data is an inside-job hijacking with an intentional cabin depressurization to incapacitate the passengers and non-pilot crew. The fact that the plane has not been found is very strong evidence that it did not crash. If it crashed on water, some debris would most likely have been found by now. If it had crashed on land, someone would have noticed the resulting fire. The in-flight fire theory is not plausible because the 777 is fly-by-wire. A fire severe enough to knock out the comms would almost certainly have taken out the fly-by-wire system as well. And no, cell phones don't work at 30k over water, but they do work at 10k over land. Like I said above, the fact that no wreckage has been found is very strong evidence that the plane landed intact. At some point during that process the plane would have almost certainly come into range of a cell phone tower somewhere.
    - tlrobinson 13y ago
      "intentional cabin depressurization to incapacitate the passengers and non-pilot crew" Isn't that what the oxygen masks are for?
      - lisper 13y ago
        Yes, but it's possible they can be switched off (I don't know). But even if they can't, the oxygen supply is only enough for an emergency descent. Again, I don't know the exact numbers, but the time until the oxygen is depleted is surely measured in minutes, not hours.
    - Steko 13y ago
      > The only one consistent with the known data is an inside-job hijacking False, nothing here is inconsistent with a mechanical problem. When the NTSB/FAA come out and say they've ruled out mechanical problems let me know. > The fact that the plane has not been found is very strong evidence that it did not crash. Almost everyone believes it has crashed. When the NTSB/FAA say otherwise let me know. > A fire severe enough to knock out the comms would almost certainly have taken out the fly-by-wire system as well. This seems like random speculation. Some of those systems would turned off by the flight crew intentionally as they go down a checklist.
      - lisper 13y ago
        > nothing here is inconsistent with a mechanical problem The total lack of communication combined with hours of continued flight with course changes is inconsistent with any plausible failure mechanism. I have seen no plausible theory of a mechanical failure that can account for these facts. > Almost everyone believes it has crashed. So? This would not be the first time that almost everyone was wrong. > This seems like random speculation It is certainly speculation, but it's not random. I'm a pilot with a degree in electrical engineering. > When the NTSB/FAA say otherwise "We cannot rule out X" and "it is probably not X" are not mutually exclusive statements. (And, BTW, an inside-job hijacking and a crash are also not mutually exclusive.) We cannot rule out anything until we know for certain what did happen. But that does not prevent us from drawing tentative conclusions what is and is not likely based on what we do know.
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    @lisper: >The fact that the plane has not been found is very strong evidence that it did not crash. If it crashed on water, some debris would most likely have been found by now. The current "most likely water crash" area has only started being searched today.
    - lisper 13y ago
      Finding debris doesn't require an active search. There are a lot of boats out there on the ocean (I'm actually on one even as I write this) and this incident has gotten a tremendous amount of publicity. If the plane crashed on the water I would think that a fishing boat would have found a seat cushion or something by now.

What if that was a part of the failure?

by peedy 13y ago

What if that was a part of the failure?

There are no failure modes that disable both transponders along with all the rest of the comm gear and all the passenger cell phones that still leave the plane in an airworthy condition.

tlrobinson 13y ago
Do cell phones even work at 30,000+ feet? Over the ocean? (No) There was a theory posted here earlier that it was a fire that initially took out the transponder and possibly comms.
- lisper 13y ago
  Many theories have been posted. The only one consistent with the known data is an inside-job hijacking with an intentional cabin depressurization to incapacitate the passengers and non-pilot crew. The fact that the plane has not been found is very strong evidence that it did not crash. If it crashed on water, some debris would most likely have been found by now. If it had crashed on land, someone would have noticed the resulting fire. The in-flight fire theory is not plausible because the 777 is fly-by-wire. A fire severe enough to knock out the comms would almost certainly have taken out the fly-by-wire system as well. And no, cell phones don't work at 30k over water, but they do work at 10k over land. Like I said above, the fact that no wreckage has been found is very strong evidence that the plane landed intact. At some point during that process the plane would have almost certainly come into range of a cell phone tower somewhere.
  - tlrobinson 13y ago
    "intentional cabin depressurization to incapacitate the passengers and non-pilot crew" Isn't that what the oxygen masks are for?
    - lisper 13y ago
      Yes, but it's possible they can be switched off (I don't know). But even if they can't, the oxygen supply is only enough for an emergency descent. Again, I don't know the exact numbers, but the time until the oxygen is depleted is surely measured in minutes, not hours.
  - Steko 13y ago
    > The only one consistent with the known data is an inside-job hijacking False, nothing here is inconsistent with a mechanical problem. When the NTSB/FAA come out and say they've ruled out mechanical problems let me know. > The fact that the plane has not been found is very strong evidence that it did not crash. Almost everyone believes it has crashed. When the NTSB/FAA say otherwise let me know. > A fire severe enough to knock out the comms would almost certainly have taken out the fly-by-wire system as well. This seems like random speculation. Some of those systems would turned off by the flight crew intentionally as they go down a checklist.
    - lisper 13y ago
      > nothing here is inconsistent with a mechanical problem The total lack of communication combined with hours of continued flight with course changes is inconsistent with any plausible failure mechanism. I have seen no plausible theory of a mechanical failure that can account for these facts. > Almost everyone believes it has crashed. So? This would not be the first time that almost everyone was wrong. > This seems like random speculation It is certainly speculation, but it's not random. I'm a pilot with a degree in electrical engineering. > When the NTSB/FAA say otherwise "We cannot rule out X" and "it is probably not X" are not mutually exclusive statements. (And, BTW, an inside-job hijacking and a crash are also not mutually exclusive.) We cannot rule out anything until we know for certain what did happen. But that does not prevent us from drawing tentative conclusions what is and is not likely based on what we do know.
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  @lisper: >The fact that the plane has not been found is very strong evidence that it did not crash. If it crashed on water, some debris would most likely have been found by now. The current "most likely water crash" area has only started being searched today.
  - lisper 13y ago
    Finding debris doesn't require an active search. There are a lot of boats out there on the ocean (I'm actually on one even as I write this) and this incident has gotten a tremendous amount of publicity. If the plane crashed on the water I would think that a fishing boat would have found a seat cushion or something by now.