4 ms·

People seem to be trying to deliberately misunderstand my point. 1) I don't think this should just be for YC. I'm just volunteering to beta test it. I think

by sama 13y ago

People seem to be trying to deliberately misunderstand my point. 1) I don't think this should just be for YC. I'm just volunteering to beta test it. I think we are very likely to show success, which would hopefully open it much more broadly. But I'd be very happy to do it together with other investors from the beginning. I feel that in general investors (YC included) are not doing enough to push this issue. 2) I do think that investors should get a say in who gets startup visas. This is no different than universities, big companies, or even the people who give out Oscars deciding who is qualified to get one.

thatthatis 13y ago
Deliberately? I generally ascribe to the camp that says: when the majority or a large portion of the audience misinterprets what is being said, the problem lies not with with readers but with the author. Perhaps it is you who mis-wrote not us who mis-read. What you wrote came off as incredibly arrogant. Especially with your recent promotion.
- cwilson 13y ago
  Incredibly arrogant? Really? Sorry, but you're definitely mis-reading that one and you've clearly never met Sam.
  - teacup50 13y ago
    "I do think that investors should get a say in who gets startup visas. This is no different than universities, big companies, or even the people who give out Oscars ..." Shoe fits.
  - thatthatis 13y ago
    ~99% of the people reading this or the original article have never met Sam. Parts of the original article, as written and without knowing the author, came off as very arrogant. If the words require a personal relationship with the author to be interpreted correctly, then there's probably a more clear way to express them. I'm sure Sam is a great guy in person, and I've enjoyed all of his articles I've read to date. Parts of this one came off as arrogant -- which isnt me saying or thinking that it was intended to, or that Sam actually is.
  - midas007 13y ago
    Yeah, I was "0.0 Wtf?" Seems very undeserved and comes off as mean.
    - thatthatis 13y ago
      I was trying to be constructive, but I can definitely see how it could come off as mean
      - midas007 13y ago
        Cool. What we write here has an impact on someone on the other end. 'sama is mostly human too, despite magically colored collared polos.
teacup50 13y ago
> 1) I don't think this should just be for YC. I'm just volunteering to beta test it. This gives you a massive advantage compared to those of us who aren't VCs and can't beta test it -- or founders that want to launch a company here, but lack your blessing. > But I'd be very happy to do it together with other investors from the beginning. I feel that in general investors (YC included) are not doing enough to push this issue. And what about those of us who don't sit in your privileged position, can't secure H1B visas, and our companies suffer as a result? > I do think that investors should get a say in who gets startup visas. This is no different than universities, big companies, or even the people who give out Oscars deciding who is qualified to get one. In all of those cases, the type of visa is opened up to a class of person who must be sponsored by a class of organizations, not any one particular organization. Additionally, the relationship between the visa sponsor and the applying individual in those circumstances is far, far, far less one-sided than it would be between potential founder and stake-holding VC.
- sbisker 13y ago
  >Additionally, the relationship between the visa sponsor and the applying individual in those circumstances is far, far, far less one-sided than it would be between potential founder and stake-holding VC. I actually disagree with this statement - but agree with your point. There's a reason why mediocre colleges can successfully charge exorbitant amounts of money to rich international students, and it's not just the student:teacher ratio. The student visa and OPT in the US are extremely powerful tools which universities have both used and abused for many years.
lmg643 13y ago
in terms of setting federal policy, are SV software startups really net job creators for the economy? when we think of them from the perspective of "software eating the world" arguably they make a lot of jobs obsolete, perhaps an order of magnitude greater in terms of number of jobs destroyed vs created. that's not to say the jobs destroyed were great jobs, or that jobs should be saved at any cost, but as a social problem, i'm interested in how much structural unemployment we now see is a result of technical innovation, versus secular shifts in demand (less housing demand, etc.)
brayton 13y ago
What about bringing them here and not taking equity? This could allow for less conflict of interest for your beta test.
rachellaw 13y ago
Re:2 The power balance between a startup and a VC is unequal compared to universities, big companies etc. The type of visa ascribed to each class is consequently different as well For instance student visas under F-1 can have OPT extensions based on their course of study (i.e if you graduate with a CS degree, you don't need a visa to work in a CS field in USA) and this extension allows additional 6-months providence if in STEM studies Companies are allowed only H1-B visas, in which if terminated for whatsoever reason, are only allowed 3 months grace to get another visa (NOT find another job). That means that they have to re-do all the paperwork and find a second sponsor willing to pay upfront as well. (that's why it's a big company thing, the company has to show a need for this worker that a US citizen doesn't provide) People who give out Oscars don't give visas, you're mistaken on that. The class of visas you're alluding to (O-1 visas) are for special achievement in a recognized field particularly in sports, entertainment or academia. The individual sponsors their own visa, and makes a case of it through letters of recommendation and appeal. It's not enough to be a "founder of X company", there's a minimum about of press, articles published, conferences attended and awards/prizes INCLUDING awards from the applicant's home country (so they must have international level achievement) What class of visas would investors be allowed to have sway over? The govt. could make a case that a startup visa is a loophole around HI-B1 because it doesn't nessescarily demonstrate a skillset not already owned by an American. In effect, for your case to work, YC would have to prove that entrepreneurship is not an American quality. The other option is O-1 visas, but that assumes that your founders have existing press/awardship already given in their home country.
ulfw 13y ago
There's no 'beta testing' of laws. There's only lobbying to get laws enacted. Might wanna work on that ;)
midas007 13y ago
> People seem to be trying to deliberately misunderstand my point. Welcome to HN :) Btw, <3 whomever did the fruit loopt video.

by sama 13y ago

thatthatis 13y ago

Deliberately? I generally ascribe to the camp that says: when the majority or a large portion of the audience misinterprets what is being said, the problem lies not with with readers but with the author. Perhaps it is you who mis-wrote not us who mis-read. What you wrote came off as incredibly arrogant. Especially with your recent promotion.

cwilson 13y ago
Incredibly arrogant? Really? Sorry, but you're definitely mis-reading that one and you've clearly never met Sam.
- teacup50 13y ago
  "I do think that investors should get a say in who gets startup visas. This is no different than universities, big companies, or even the people who give out Oscars ..." Shoe fits.
- thatthatis 13y ago
  ~99% of the people reading this or the original article have never met Sam. Parts of the original article, as written and without knowing the author, came off as very arrogant. If the words require a personal relationship with the author to be interpreted correctly, then there's probably a more clear way to express them. I'm sure Sam is a great guy in person, and I've enjoyed all of his articles I've read to date. Parts of this one came off as arrogant -- which isnt me saying or thinking that it was intended to, or that Sam actually is.
- midas007 13y ago
  Yeah, I was "0.0 Wtf?" Seems very undeserved and comes off as mean.
  - thatthatis 13y ago
    I was trying to be constructive, but I can definitely see how it could come off as mean
    - midas007 13y ago
      Cool. What we write here has an impact on someone on the other end. 'sama is mostly human too, despite magically colored collared polos.

teacup50 13y ago

> 1) I don't think this should just be for YC. I'm just volunteering to beta test it. This gives you a massive advantage compared to those of us who aren't VCs and can't beta test it -- or founders that want to launch a company here, but lack your blessing. > But I'd be very happy to do it together with other investors from the beginning. I feel that in general investors (YC included) are not doing enough to push this issue. And what about those of us who don't sit in your privileged position, can't secure H1B visas, and our companies suffer as a result? > I do think that investors should get a say in who gets startup visas. This is no different than universities, big companies, or even the people who give out Oscars deciding who is qualified to get one. In all of those cases, the type of visa is opened up to a class of person who must be sponsored by a class of organizations, not any one particular organization. Additionally, the relationship between the visa sponsor and the applying individual in those circumstances is far, far, far less one-sided than it would be between potential founder and stake-holding VC.

sbisker 13y ago
>Additionally, the relationship between the visa sponsor and the applying individual in those circumstances is far, far, far less one-sided than it would be between potential founder and stake-holding VC. I actually disagree with this statement - but agree with your point. There's a reason why mediocre colleges can successfully charge exorbitant amounts of money to rich international students, and it's not just the student:teacher ratio. The student visa and OPT in the US are extremely powerful tools which universities have both used and abused for many years.

lmg643 13y ago

in terms of setting federal policy, are SV software startups really net job creators for the economy? when we think of them from the perspective of "software eating the world" arguably they make a lot of jobs obsolete, perhaps an order of magnitude greater in terms of number of jobs destroyed vs created. that's not to say the jobs destroyed were great jobs, or that jobs should be saved at any cost, but as a social problem, i'm interested in how much structural unemployment we now see is a result of technical innovation, versus secular shifts in demand (less housing demand, etc.)

brayton 13y ago

What about bringing them here and not taking equity? This could allow for less conflict of interest for your beta test.

rachellaw 13y ago

Re:2 The power balance between a startup and a VC is unequal compared to universities, big companies etc. The type of visa ascribed to each class is consequently different as well For instance student visas under F-1 can have OPT extensions based on their course of study (i.e if you graduate with a CS degree, you don't need a visa to work in a CS field in USA) and this extension allows additional 6-months providence if in STEM studies Companies are allowed only H1-B visas, in which if terminated for whatsoever reason, are only allowed 3 months grace to get another visa (NOT find another job). That means that they have to re-do all the paperwork and find a second sponsor willing to pay upfront as well. (that's why it's a big company thing, the company has to show a need for this worker that a US citizen doesn't provide) People who give out Oscars don't give visas, you're mistaken on that. The class of visas you're alluding to (O-1 visas) are for special achievement in a recognized field particularly in sports, entertainment or academia. The individual sponsors their own visa, and makes a case of it through letters of recommendation and appeal. It's not enough to be a "founder of X company", there's a minimum about of press, articles published, conferences attended and awards/prizes INCLUDING awards from the applicant's home country (so they must have international level achievement) What class of visas would investors be allowed to have sway over? The govt. could make a case that a startup visa is a loophole around HI-B1 because it doesn't nessescarily demonstrate a skillset not already owned by an American. In effect, for your case to work, YC would have to prove that entrepreneurship is not an American quality. The other option is O-1 visas, but that assumes that your founders have existing press/awardship already given in their home country.

ulfw 13y ago

There's no 'beta testing' of laws. There's only lobbying to get laws enacted. Might wanna work on that ;)

midas007 13y ago

> People seem to be trying to deliberately misunderstand my point. Welcome to HN :) Btw, <3 whomever did the fruit loopt video.