3 ms·

So I'm with you. I also suffer from attention span issues. It's been a terrible thing to have to live with at times. But I have to ask an honest question: do y

So I'm with you. I also suffer from attention span issues. It's been a terrible thing to have to live with at times. But I have to ask an honest question: do you have a deficiency for which you need treatment? Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? Or -- more likely -- do you have a tendency for a type of personality attribute expression which varies depending on various external stimuli? I think it's perfectly fine that something like ADHD is a naturally-occurring personality trait and/or state of mind for which we might need medication to overcome. At the same time, I'm not too happy with characterizing it as a disease or dysfunction. I think we are taking people who are acting in a completely normal fashion and telling them something is broken about them. That ain't right. In other words, you both might be right. It's not an either-or situation. As we continue to develop our knowledge of the brain, it's a terrible mistake to create some artificial "perfect" personality and mind that any deviation from is a disease. Very. Bad.

jaggederest 13y ago
I would argue that the vast majority of people diagnosed with ADHD don't fit the DSM V criteria for a disorder. They're experiencing "an expectable response to common stressors", and probably not "reflecting an underlying psychobiological dysfunction" - they're human, humans are often distracted, this is not a disease until it gets to the level where it absolutely begins to destroy your life, and even then it's probably reflective of something else going on rather than a primary disease. The key to anything as a disorder in the DSM is that it: Features A a behavioral or psychological syndrome or pattern that occurs in an individual B the consequences of which are clinically significant distress (e.g., a painful symptom) or disability (i.e., impairment in one or more important areas of functioning) C must not be merely an expectable response to common stressors and losses (for example, the loss of a loved one) or a culturally sanctioned response to a particular event (for example, trance states in religious rituals) D that reflects an underlying psychobiological dysfunction E that is not solely a result of social deviance or conflicts with society F that has diagnostic validity using one or more sets of diagnostic validators (e.g., prognostic significance, psychobiological disruption, response to treatment) G that has clinical utility (for example, contributes to better conceptualization of diagnoses, or to better assessment and treatment) Other Considerations H no definition perfectly specifies precise boundaries for the concept of either “medical disorder” or “mental/psychiatric disorder” I diagnostic validators and clinical utility should help differentiate a disorder from diagnostic “nearest neighbors” J when considering whether to add a psychiatric condition to the nomenclature, or delete a psychiatric condition from the nomenclature, potential benefits (for example, provide better patient care, stimulate new research) should outweigh potential harms (for example, hurt particular individuals, be subject to misuse)
JoeAltmaier 13y ago
Why is it ok, if its 'natural' or a native trait? My eyes are bad; should I go around without glasses to prove some ethical point? No, ADHD exists, my family exhibits it (3 generations now and counting), and it can be harnessed, treated or ignored with wildly differing outcomes. Harnessing and treating it are vastly preferable to ignoring it.
JohnBooty 13y ago
But I have to ask an honest question: do you have a deficiency for which you need treatment? Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? Or -- more likely -- do you have a tendency for a type of personality attribute expression which varies depending on various external stimuli? I think it's perfectly fine that something like ADHD is a naturally- occurring personality trait and/or state of mind for which we might need medication to overcome. At the same time, I'm not too happy with characterizing it as a disease or dysfunction. I think we are taking people who are acting in a completely normal fashion and telling them something is broken about them. That ain't right. I love the way you put this, and I agree with a lot of what you said. BUT I also don't think what you say is incompatible with treating focus issues as a problem that can be helped by medication. For me, learning about ADHD was very liberating! It wasn't a diagnosis that told me I was fundamentally broken as a person; it was exactly the opposite. I had a lot of love and support growing up in the 80s and early 90s, don't get me wrong. But I also got a lot of negative reinforcement and had come to think of myself (as a certain book title suggests) as "lazy, stupid, or crazy" (ok - maybe just lazy or crazy) when it came to focus and procrastination issues. I never even considered ADD/ADHD because as far as I knew, it was a label for hyperactive kids and I was never hyperactive. Those are very broad terms, you know? I really felt like there was fundamental shit wrong with me. I grew up believing in hard work but had the hardest time doing homework and taxes and things I didn't want to do. So learning about and eventually being diagnosed with ADHD really helped the way I feel about myself. Instead of feeling broken on some fundamental level, I came to feel like I had a pretty specific thing to deal with; one that could be helped by medication and proper sleep/diet/environment/exercise. Edit: I also want to address this one specific thing you said: Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? I can't think of a single line of work that doesn't benefit from an increased ability to focus. Even entrepreneurs, who are often famously ADHD (or ADHD-like, anyway) in their restlessness and curiosity, need to focus on the mundane stuff sometimes. And it's not like medication erases those positive ADHD traits either. The fact is that stimulants leave your body pretty quickly, and with something like your Adderall dosage from day to day. If you're responsible and take a little bit less on the days you don't need it, you can take a little more on the days when you need it more. You can tailor the effects a bit depending on your needs on a particular day. (Note: The medication is far from perfect; it's not for everybody and is not a cure-all. Biologically, stimulants are a very crude way to address one's focus. In my experience, proper sleep/diet/exercise/environment are more important than any medication I've tried.)

jaggederest 13y ago

I would argue that the vast majority of people diagnosed with ADHD don't fit the DSM V criteria for a disorder. They're experiencing "an expectable response to common stressors", and probably not "reflecting an underlying psychobiological dysfunction" - they're human, humans are often distracted, this is not a disease until it gets to the level where it absolutely begins to destroy your life, and even then it's probably reflective of something else going on rather than a primary disease. The key to anything as a disorder in the DSM is that it: Features A a behavioral or psychological syndrome or pattern that occurs in an individual B the consequences of which are clinically significant distress (e.g., a painful symptom) or disability (i.e., impairment in one or more important areas of functioning) C must not be merely an expectable response to common stressors and losses (for example, the loss of a loved one) or a culturally sanctioned response to a particular event (for example, trance states in religious rituals) D that reflects an underlying psychobiological dysfunction E that is not solely a result of social deviance or conflicts with society F that has diagnostic validity using one or more sets of diagnostic validators (e.g., prognostic significance, psychobiological disruption, response to treatment) G that has clinical utility (for example, contributes to better conceptualization of diagnoses, or to better assessment and treatment) Other Considerations H no definition perfectly specifies precise boundaries for the concept of either “medical disorder” or “mental/psychiatric disorder” I diagnostic validators and clinical utility should help differentiate a disorder from diagnostic “nearest neighbors” J when considering whether to add a psychiatric condition to the nomenclature, or delete a psychiatric condition from the nomenclature, potential benefits (for example, provide better patient care, stimulate new research) should outweigh potential harms (for example, hurt particular individuals, be subject to misuse)

JoeAltmaier 13y ago

Why is it ok, if its 'natural' or a native trait? My eyes are bad; should I go around without glasses to prove some ethical point? No, ADHD exists, my family exhibits it (3 generations now and counting), and it can be harnessed, treated or ignored with wildly differing outcomes. Harnessing and treating it are vastly preferable to ignoring it.

JohnBooty 13y ago

But I have to ask an honest question: do you have a deficiency for which you need treatment? Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? Or -- more likely -- do you have a tendency for a type of personality attribute expression which varies depending on various external stimuli? I think it's perfectly fine that something like ADHD is a naturally- occurring personality trait and/or state of mind for which we might need medication to overcome. At the same time, I'm not too happy with characterizing it as a disease or dysfunction. I think we are taking people who are acting in a completely normal fashion and telling them something is broken about them. That ain't right. I love the way you put this, and I agree with a lot of what you said. BUT I also don't think what you say is incompatible with treating focus issues as a problem that can be helped by medication. For me, learning about ADHD was very liberating! It wasn't a diagnosis that told me I was fundamentally broken as a person; it was exactly the opposite. I had a lot of love and support growing up in the 80s and early 90s, don't get me wrong. But I also got a lot of negative reinforcement and had come to think of myself (as a certain book title suggests) as "lazy, stupid, or crazy" (ok - maybe just lazy or crazy) when it came to focus and procrastination issues. I never even considered ADD/ADHD because as far as I knew, it was a label for hyperactive kids and I was never hyperactive. Those are very broad terms, you know? I really felt like there was fundamental shit wrong with me. I grew up believing in hard work but had the hardest time doing homework and taxes and things I didn't want to do. So learning about and eventually being diagnosed with ADHD really helped the way I feel about myself. Instead of feeling broken on some fundamental level, I came to feel like I had a pretty specific thing to deal with; one that could be helped by medication and proper sleep/diet/environment/exercise. Edit: I also want to address this one specific thing you said: Or do you have a personality type which might make you unsuited for certain types of work? I can't think of a single line of work that doesn't benefit from an increased ability to focus. Even entrepreneurs, who are often famously ADHD (or ADHD-like, anyway) in their restlessness and curiosity, need to focus on the mundane stuff sometimes. And it's not like medication erases those positive ADHD traits either. The fact is that stimulants leave your body pretty quickly, and with something like your Adderall dosage from day to day. If you're responsible and take a little bit less on the days you don't need it, you can take a little more on the days when you need it more. You can tailor the effects a bit depending on your needs on a particular day. (Note: The medication is far from perfect; it's not for everybody and is not a cure-all. Biologically, stimulants are a very crude way to address one's focus. In my experience, proper sleep/diet/exercise/environment are more important than any medication I've tried.)