4 ms·

Shame about the timing with all the uncertainty around Scotland's commitment to United Kingdom.

by cones688 13y ago

Torn 13y ago
I don't see how that's related
- tomelders 13y ago
  They don't know what kind of money they'll be able to use if they do vote for independence. It's perhaps more than reasonable to suggest Scotland's future is uncertain. Also, take the "Scottish" out of "Scottish Nationalism" and you're left with "Nationalism". There's no way I'm moving to a country that thinks "Nationalism" is a good thing.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    Scottish Nationalism is usually described as "civic nationalism": "Civic nationalism is a kind of nationalism identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism It is notable that UKIP, which really does have the xenophobic kind of nationalism, has almost no support in Scotland.
    - tomelders 13y ago
      A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. No one in the history of the world has ever conceded that their version of a bad thing is the same as another version of the bad thing.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - lifebeyondfife 13y ago
        As jeffbr states, look at the policies of the SNP before unfairly categorising them. Scotland just voted in equal marriage for same-sex couples with the First Minister of Scotland, and leader of the SNP, strongly in favour. It really isn't a prejudiced or authoritarian nationalist party and has a record to back that up.
        tomelders 13y ago
        I don't agree. I think the Scottish Nationlist's are racist towards the English, and they're happy to incite hatred in the electorate by raising the spectre of the Evil English raping and pillaging it's way through Scotland. They asked for a referendum to be held on the anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn. To what end? Perhaps Jingoism is a better term than Nationalism.
        tomelders 13y ago
        And for what it's worth, I don't begrudge Scotland it's independence. Good for Scotland I say. But I'm calling it as I see it.
  - jeffbr13 13y ago
    Oh come on, Scottish Nationalism ≠ Nazi-ism/EDL-ism Scotland's "Nationalism" is about gaining independence and actually becoming a nation, not about violent and misguided idealism. In fact, Alex Salmond (leader of the Scottish National Party, the majority party in Scottish Parliament) has come out for more liberal immigration policies, to encourage positive economic immigration[0]. Compared to the UK government's increasingly tough stance on immigration[1], and the rise of right-wing parties such as UKIP and the BNP, I'd much rather live in a small, liberal nation like Scotland. [0]: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-salmond-s-immigration-vow-1-3198028 http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-i... [1]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10699069/Britons-would-need-passport-to-visit-an-independent-Scotland.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence...
    - collyw 13y ago
      For me its about being represented slightly more than we currently are, with the London centric politics of Great Britain. One arse in charge of 6 million is 10x more democratic than one arse in charge of 60 million.
      - jeffbr13 13y ago
        Exactly, Scotland (and most other parts of the UK) won't ever get as much attention in Westminster as the South-East of England, and our parliamentary representatives are that much further away from us. You could say that your vote's power is inversely-proportional to the size of the democracy, but if you look at how the complexity of communication scales, then surely smaller democracies are able to function much more effectively than larger ones (cf. small vs. large [software] teams). I'm voting yes because, although I plan to travel after I get my degree from Edinburgh, independence would give me more (and potentially better) options for living in the EU in future.
leoc 13y ago
It's not a huge deal. First, the referendum seems strongly probable to fail, though not by a huge margin. Second, it's unlikely that independence would have any dramatic effect on many people's software jobs in Scotland, certainly in the short term. The most likely problem would be exchange-rate issues.
- imurray 13y ago
  the referendum seems strongly probable to fail To quantify: Betfair's current probability is ~17.5% of a "Yes" vote, although that's not based on enormous volumes: http://uk.sportsiteexweb.betfair.com/betting/LoadRunnerInfoChartAction.do?marketId=110033387&selectionId=5334892&logarithmic=true http://uk.sportsiteexweb.betfair.com/betting/LoadRunnerInfoC...

Shame about the timing with all the uncertainty around Scotland's commitment to United Kingdom.

Torn 13y ago

I don't see how that's related

tomelders 13y ago
They don't know what kind of money they'll be able to use if they do vote for independence. It's perhaps more than reasonable to suggest Scotland's future is uncertain. Also, take the "Scottish" out of "Scottish Nationalism" and you're left with "Nationalism". There's no way I'm moving to a country that thinks "Nationalism" is a good thing.
- arethuza 13y ago
  Scottish Nationalism is usually described as "civic nationalism": "Civic nationalism is a kind of nationalism identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism It is notable that UKIP, which really does have the xenophobic kind of nationalism, has almost no support in Scotland.
  - tomelders 13y ago
    A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. No one in the history of the world has ever conceded that their version of a bad thing is the same as another version of the bad thing.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - lifebeyondfife 13y ago
      As jeffbr states, look at the policies of the SNP before unfairly categorising them. Scotland just voted in equal marriage for same-sex couples with the First Minister of Scotland, and leader of the SNP, strongly in favour. It really isn't a prejudiced or authoritarian nationalist party and has a record to back that up.
      - tomelders 13y ago
        I don't agree. I think the Scottish Nationlist's are racist towards the English, and they're happy to incite hatred in the electorate by raising the spectre of the Evil English raping and pillaging it's way through Scotland. They asked for a referendum to be held on the anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn. To what end? Perhaps Jingoism is a better term than Nationalism.
        tomelders 13y ago
        And for what it's worth, I don't begrudge Scotland it's independence. Good for Scotland I say. But I'm calling it as I see it.
- jeffbr13 13y ago
  Oh come on, Scottish Nationalism ≠ Nazi-ism/EDL-ism Scotland's "Nationalism" is about gaining independence and actually becoming a nation, not about violent and misguided idealism. In fact, Alex Salmond (leader of the Scottish National Party, the majority party in Scottish Parliament) has come out for more liberal immigration policies, to encourage positive economic immigration[0]. Compared to the UK government's increasingly tough stance on immigration[1], and the rise of right-wing parties such as UKIP and the BNP, I'd much rather live in a small, liberal nation like Scotland. [0]: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-salmond-s-immigration-vow-1-3198028 http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-i... [1]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10699069/Britons-would-need-passport-to-visit-an-independent-Scotland.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence...
  - collyw 13y ago
    For me its about being represented slightly more than we currently are, with the London centric politics of Great Britain. One arse in charge of 6 million is 10x more democratic than one arse in charge of 60 million.
    - jeffbr13 13y ago
      Exactly, Scotland (and most other parts of the UK) won't ever get as much attention in Westminster as the South-East of England, and our parliamentary representatives are that much further away from us. You could say that your vote's power is inversely-proportional to the size of the democracy, but if you look at how the complexity of communication scales, then surely smaller democracies are able to function much more effectively than larger ones (cf. small vs. large [software] teams). I'm voting yes because, although I plan to travel after I get my degree from Edinburgh, independence would give me more (and potentially better) options for living in the EU in future.

leoc 13y ago

It's not a huge deal. First, the referendum seems strongly probable to fail, though not by a huge margin. Second, it's unlikely that independence would have any dramatic effect on many people's software jobs in Scotland, certainly in the short term. The most likely problem would be exchange-rate issues.

imurray 13y ago
the referendum seems strongly probable to fail To quantify: Betfair's current probability is ~17.5% of a "Yes" vote, although that's not based on enormous volumes: http://uk.sportsiteexweb.betfair.com/betting/LoadRunnerInfoChartAction.do?marketId=110033387&selectionId=5334892&logarithmic=true http://uk.sportsiteexweb.betfair.com/betting/LoadRunnerInfoC...