4 ms·

> things that bloat larger projects to the point where it literally can take minutes to compile, and load the first request in a web application. Kind of like

> things that bloat larger projects to the point where it literally can take minutes to compile, and load the first request in a web application. Kind of like how Rails devs have tests that run for minutes? I kid. Sort of. Both instances are problems of poor design and architecture. C#/VS don't really pay off until you start having larger code bases. Which, for web apps, doesn't happen...until it does, and then it sucks. The semantic analysis afforded by more static languages like C# becomes a real boon then. I'm not going to argue that types will fix the Software Problem, but they do help considerably, especially when an API shifts out from under you. I love VS (and won't write any C++ without it), but it is pretty hefty. Some of the recent UI changes are highly questionable in my mind, but, that's MS for you.

tracker1 13y ago
Like I said, I do like C#, and even VS... I just find that the types of refactoring and reduced bootstrap time for trying things in a scripted environment can offset a lot of what VS brings to the table. One issue I face a lot at work, is that imho single responsibility principle should extend to modules, and a lot of even the node.js dev here is more monolithic in nature than it should be. It's about learning your tools, and how to bring in what you need, and keeping out what you don't. In the end it's almost as much about technique as the tools, but sometimes it's easier to adopt new techniques while adapting to new tooling.
- mattgreenrocks 13y ago
  It's hard to find webdevs who believe in SRP; my theory is that the explosion of open source libraries and frameworks has de-emphasized all facets of programming experience and technique to the point that app dev is little more than duct-taping components together and debugging until it works. (Which is incredibly dreary, but that's another discussion.) Also, a lot of script-y environments discourage you from thinking about it: Rails' autoload, DHH's rants, no compilation/linking step, etc.
  - tracker1 13y ago
    No kidding, I think people gravitate to generators in the same way in many environments... even in ASP.Net MVC I tend to clean out the project bits as a first step, then start wiring myself. Though, I do think express/connect, koa and others do a good job of giving you relatively SRP lego pieces.
    - mattgreenrocks 13y ago
      Back in the ye olden days, derision was aimed at those who programmed by filling in all the bits left by MSVC ClassWizard. It was a bit harsh, but a lot of the criticism stemmed from the perception that people were just coloring by number without truly understanding how it all fit together. Now, we promote such a way in the name of productivity. Little wonder SRP gets squeezed out.

tracker1 13y ago

Like I said, I do like C#, and even VS... I just find that the types of refactoring and reduced bootstrap time for trying things in a scripted environment can offset a lot of what VS brings to the table. One issue I face a lot at work, is that imho single responsibility principle should extend to modules, and a lot of even the node.js dev here is more monolithic in nature than it should be. It's about learning your tools, and how to bring in what you need, and keeping out what you don't. In the end it's almost as much about technique as the tools, but sometimes it's easier to adopt new techniques while adapting to new tooling.

mattgreenrocks 13y ago
It's hard to find webdevs who believe in SRP; my theory is that the explosion of open source libraries and frameworks has de-emphasized all facets of programming experience and technique to the point that app dev is little more than duct-taping components together and debugging until it works. (Which is incredibly dreary, but that's another discussion.) Also, a lot of script-y environments discourage you from thinking about it: Rails' autoload, DHH's rants, no compilation/linking step, etc.
- tracker1 13y ago
  No kidding, I think people gravitate to generators in the same way in many environments... even in ASP.Net MVC I tend to clean out the project bits as a first step, then start wiring myself. Though, I do think express/connect, koa and others do a good job of giving you relatively SRP lego pieces.
  - mattgreenrocks 13y ago
    Back in the ye olden days, derision was aimed at those who programmed by filling in all the bits left by MSVC ClassWizard. It was a bit harsh, but a lot of the criticism stemmed from the perception that people were just coloring by number without truly understanding how it all fit together. Now, we promote such a way in the name of productivity. Little wonder SRP gets squeezed out.