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Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products
- mrcwinn 13y agoSooooooooo... "We’re surrounded by anonymous, poorly made objects. It’s tempting to think it’s because the people who use them don’t care — just like the people who make them." I am certainly a big believer in "giving a damn" about design and code. I completely believe that people "feel" the care that went into a product. I myself have agonized over a detail without any direct evidence that anyone, anywhere, would ever notice or care. But I'm not sure this type of dismissive talk is the right way to relay the message. There are objects that are intended to fulfill specific requirements and budgets. Apple has the luxury of selling high-end products to people, like me, who are lucky enough to afford (unsubsidized) $600 phones. We take it for granted, but that's not the norm for a bunch of great people. There's an office chair at Staples that is uglier than the chair I sit in. The materials simply don't compare. But then neither would the price. There are people who just need a damn chair, and don't have a bunch of money to afford a "non-anonymous" chair designed by somebody who "cared." In fact, to the contrary, I'm certain the designer of the cheap chair appreciates his or her job, is trying to provide for a family, and would care not to lose their job. Elon Musk made a similar comment. He said the actual cost to the manufacturer of a car in terms of product design is negligible. You could design the most beautiful car in the world without dramatically changing the sticker price for the finished product. So maybe Kia should go for it: spend millions of dollars per year and put together the best design shop the industry has ever known! Design an incredible new studio for them to work in. Give them the best tools. A completely new prototyping facility to print their designs. Hire color consultants to get the paint just right. And then tell them they can only use the materials and manufacturing process of today's $12,000 car, and somehow ensure the incredible demand for the most beautiful car ever conceived did not impact the price in any way. Is it any wonder Tesla, despite Musk's claims, is working his way from the top of the market, and not the bottom? Tim Cook said last year something similar with regard to Android tablets. He said those tablets are collecting dust (my cheap, $199 Nexus 7 is not). If a parent really cared about their children's education, they would opt for a more expensive iPad because it has better children's apps (probably true right now). This is the same line of communication that Ive demonstrates here. To me, it's dismissive. I actually love my little daughter a whole bunch. I'm crazy about her. I don't measure that love in dollars, and I actually think a cheaper, more durable Nexus 7 is the better option for her to play with right now. Apple's communications are borderline dismissive to people who are less fortunate and less lucky. I don't think that's intentional, because they are full of wonderful people, but I wish they would be more careful in their communication. Marketing should be optimistic and aspirational, not dismissive and elitist.
- w1ntermute 13y agoTesla is working its way from the top of the market because battery packs are very expensive right now and because general uncertainty (and particularly range anxiety) when it comes to electric cars makes owning a Tesla as your only vehicle an unpalatable proposition for the majority of people. It has absolutely nothing to do with design.
- Qworg 13y agoAn all-electric vehicle is definitively a design choice. That design choice directly impacts who Tesla targets with their products.
- mrcwinn 13y agoOh, my point was not to criticize Tesla's strategy. They chose the correct strategy. Working from the top down is the right course when you need to preserve funds (high margins) and can't yet scale (general production, battery, limited demand at the time). My point was simply that it's a flawed argument to say you can maintain high margins, while still servicing the mass market with the absolute best design, materials, manufacturing. If a car manufacturer could, it would be disruptive - but it's the exception, not the rule. That said, I think Tesla's the most likely candidate to do this! But it's worth noting they did it from the top moving downstream. It's more difficult to do this when you're starting at the position of a Kia or even a Toyota. It's not just about throwing money at the problem, and that, I believe, is contrary to Musk's argument.
- tracker1 13y agoI don't think there's much in that car manufacturers can not do to be far more competitive with lower margins. Look at today's mid-upper range from say Hyundai, they tend to have a lot of features that would be in a 2-4 year old Buick or Mercedes for 1/2 to 1/4 the price. I had a 2009 Hyudai Sonata 4-dr with the v6 before my current car, and liked it a lot. It was about 1/2 the price of the car I have now. To be honest, I can't even really get the most out of my V8 for day to day driving, and mostly got the new car for coolness factor (2012 Challenger R/T). There's times I also miss my pickup truck. I also accept that for the most part, I'm not most people. Just the same, I have no doubt that Hyundai or Kia could match Mercedes, BMW, Catillac and the like for a significantly lower price. The rules of economics still apply though. The image of a "lesser" brand would not be offset by higher quality to increase demand/price. Why do you think Toyota sells their high end under the Lexus brand? Beyond all this, there's nothing wrong with selling a product for as much as you can get.
- T-zex 13y ago"We make and sell a very, very large number of (hopefully) beautiful, well-made things. our success is a victory for purity, integrity — for giving a damn." Surely he's not talking about the headphones supplied with iDevices.
- Zikes 13y agoOr the MacBook charge cables that consistently break and need replaced on nearly a yearly basis.
- Jtsummers 13y agoI've seen many complaints about the charge cables, but never had an issue myself. Are there just some bad batches running around, or is it a particular model that's had issues?
- Bud 13y agoIt's a problem with people who think they can wind a power cable tightly around something hundreds of times, pay no attention to strain on it or to abusing the weak point where it enters the charger, and then are mystified when it finally fails. Apple's chargers are in fact much, much tougher than the competition's; this is obvious if you just look at the construction for five seconds and even more obvious if you go read a tear-down of them.
- wlesieutre 13y agoTo be fair, the windy-feet that Apple puts on their power bricks encourage users to do it. I figure that if I need a big coil for the line voltage side I might as well put the DC end in the same size loops, so I never use the built in cable winding. Haven't had any problems except for a close call with a rabbit. Then again, I don't carry it that frequently because the battery life is usually enough. Somebody who puts more wear on them would be more likely to have problems, but I'm not convinced they're so much worse than adapters from other companies.
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- mantrax 13y agoI don't get this, I never will. So this journalist gets access to Ive himself, does an interview, then feels the need to hide that interview and retell it to us, inserting mini-quotes here there. Why!? Give us the damn interview!
- jayvanguard 13y agoI wonder if a condition of the interview was that it was abridged and Apple got to approve it before publication.
- sirkneeland 13y agoAlmost assuredly.
- mantrax 13y agoYeah, almost assuredly they approved of an abridged version talking about how Apple has hit a rough patch after Steve's death and how it costs $2 to make a $20 adapter (which wasn't a part of the interview to begin with). Please.
- badman_ting 13y agoI'm guessing he doesn't work on the Maps app, or Siri. Apologies for the snark but when you're playing at this level and talking big talk about how great your products are, you gotta back it up.
- happyscrappy 13y agoNo one will seriously argue against the superior build quality of Apple devices. Siri has way to go but Maps is almost there so soon there will be no point in giving your data to Google.
- stcredzero 13y agoI still think Google Maps search is heads and shoulders above Apple Maps'. Also, the transit directions exist and work well. Both Google Maps and Apple Maps have massively betrayed me with directions.
- pazimzadeh 13y agoGoogle Maps still has much better data, which arguably is what's most important but to me Apple Maps has a better UI. For example, Google Maps has a much lower frame rate and in general is less fluid and responsive than Apple maps. I wish that Google provided the data and Apple the front-end design, just like in the good old days.
- stcredzero 13y agoRight. It's amazing how much more responsive Maps was on iOS 3, even only with EDGE bandwidth!
- doktrin 13y agoI found the entire article unpleasant to read. It felt servile and sycophantic. For instance : > "...The iMac banished complicated, hard-to-use PCs from our desks and made computing easy." > "...the two men set out on their maniacal journey to remake what they saw as the bland, lazy world around them.." > "...Tomorrow doesn’t wait for the man who designs it." Seriously? > "... It looks like all the other dull, un-Apple-like glass and beige — yes, beige — concrete blocks." This last one isn't so much worshipful as ironic, considering the color chosen by Jobs for the original Macintosh.
- T-zex 13y agoTIL: "The adjective sycophantic is perfect for describing someone who uses flattery to get what they want. The sycophantic guy in your biology class might compliment the professor on her fabulous shoes as he hands in his lab report."
- chillingeffect 13y ago> servile and sycophantic If one applies the typical standards of high school English to this article, asking "What is it trying to communicate?" "What is someone trying to tell me?" etc., one will be left very empty. It's a puff piece, inflating a corporate celebrity. All of the text is designed to persuade you that "yes, indeed, this man surely is impressive. Yes, this company is impressive." With all that gleaming prose, it's easy to forget all the things one might want to know, such as, "How can I do this, too?" or "Are there any pitfalls or problems with this?" "Are these appropriations of resources worth it or is this a Dutch tulip fiasco playing out in slow-motion?" "Why are people so starved for quality in other parts of their lives that they demand quality in their digital appliances?" But none of that really matters, b/c Time is a dying, over-inflated magazine, so they'll just put "Apple" and "Design" in a headline, mollify people with fascinating details with no hint of self-reflection and call it a day. In short, this an article for sheep, not people trying to figure out how to make the world good.
- wmeredith 13y agoTime has been circling the drain for a while. This is another beat of the same tune.
- bluedino 13y agoMr. Ive - what the hell has been going on with Apple mice in the last 16 years?
- qzc4 13y agoI don't see much wrong with them, other than the new backwards scrolling, disappearing scrollbars and rubberbanding. I use the Magic Mouse, which to me feels pretty nice. The only trouble I have really had is that they're crap for gaming. Then again, I don't touch my mouse very often.
- bananas 13y agoMagic mouse (I own one): goes flat after only a month, nips your fingers at the sides when you press it, bottom keeps falling off, makes your hands hurt. Mighty mouse (I owned one): ball that stopped working instantly when you used it and the only way to get it clean involved destroying the mouse. Pro mouse (I owned one): cable frayed after no less than two weeks. Apple USB puck mouse: just totally unusable pile of crap unfit for human use. I decided to go for the innovative option in the end: the Microsoft £10 optical mouse. Works much better than anything Apple have ever thrown out.
- qzc4 13y agoFor the Mighty Mouse you just need to kind of turn it upside down and roll it on a piece of paper to clean it out. But I guess you're right, the only time I really use a mouse for an extended period of time is when browsing the internet or in one of the crappy IntelliJ things which don't seem to even allow you to close a tab with the keyboard. Apple mice are bad, but I guess I meant that my experience hasn't been significantly worse with them than with other mice. But maybe I'm just an apple fanboy :(
- bananas 13y agoI tried the paper trick but it didn't work for me after a couple of months. Got it replaced at Apple store and sold it quick.
- onmydesk 13y agoiOS7. What more needs to be said about Ives when left to his own devices. And by his own devices of course I mean jobs and Forstalls devices. Stick to the pretty box Ives, know your limits.
- skore 13y ago> A phone is just a phone, not the second coming of Christ. “What people are responding to is much bigger than the object. They are responding to something rare — a group of people who do more than simply make something work, they make the very best products they possibly can. It’s a demonstration against thoughtlessness and carelessness,” > [...]when I ask whether he is flattered or frustrated when he sees his designs so widely referenced, reworked — ok, copied. “It’s theft,” he replies in a heartbeat, his eyes narrowing sharply. Isn't that the real shame here? I admire Apple for their undisputed ability to strike these marvels of design and the way in which they are immitated does reinforce that they have condensed their solutions into something true, something fundamental. And - fluffiness aside, I do think they serve as demonstrations "against thoughtlessness and carelessness". I admire it in a similar way that I admire how wikipedia has become the encyclopedia. The difference is that in the latter, we have realized that it is a common good that needs to be shared, not an asset that a company posesses. I understand the enormous amount of work that Ive and his team have put into these devices and they are justified in thinking that they deserve a lot of glory for them. But maybe they are looking for it in the wrong places? Maybe the identity crisis that Apple has isn't so much their inability to find the next big thing, but their over-attachment to their past hits? Perhaps the key to new glory is letting go of the old glory and sharing it with the world, their ego removed from the equation?
- MaysonL 13y ago> Maybe the identity crisis that Apple has isn't so much their inability to find the next big thing, but their over-attachment to their past hits? Perhaps the key to new glory is letting go of the old glory and sharing it with the world, their ego removed from the equation? Compare Microsoft's attachment to, and unwillingness to consider letting go of, Windows, with Apple's triaging of the iPod and Mac...
- fpgeek 13y agoWindows 8, for all of its faults, comprehensively demonstrated that it isn't Microsoft that's unwilling to let go of Windows - it's their customers (which isn't surprising for a company whose products are in the process of being disrupted).
- erokar 13y agoApple needs to step their game up. The Mac Pro is arguably the most interesting they have produced in the last few years. Macbooks, while still elegant, haven't had a major design update since 2009. iPhone and iPad updates were evolutionary. iOS 7 is a travesty of aesthetic shortcomings, elementary design errors and bugs. Apple can't afford to be smug any more.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago>> "Macbooks, while still elegant, haven't had a major design update since 2009." The retina display and removal of optical disk drives are pretty major design updates. The screen is arguably the most important part of a laptop and making it retina while still maintaining good battery life is a huge deal.
- erokar 13y agoBy design I mean their physcial look and feel, the industrial design. They are starting to look stale.
- sirkneeland 13y agoThe flip side of looking stale is looking iconic. (not saying I personally feel they are, but they definitely have an unmistakable look over the years, similar to a BMW 3 series)
- k-mcgrady 13y agoI understand what you mean but physically the screen is one of the major parts of the design. What really needs changed about the rest of it? It's incredibly thin, durable, attractive. I agree it's a stale design but I'm finding it very hard to think of anyway they could change the appearance that would be an improvement.
- sbuk 13y ago> They are starting to look stale. In comparison to what? You cannot say that without backing it up. If we are going to critique design, let's do it properly.
- bananas 13y agoLet us not forget, he designed the "Puck Mouse" that came with the iMac and G3 towers...
- reustle 13y agoFor those who have never seen one, here is a picture http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/archives/pictures/three-apple-mice.jpg http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/archives/pictures/three-apple-m...
- rbanffy 13y agoI actually liked the puck mouse DEC bundled with their DECStations and VAXStations. http://arvutimuuseum.ut.ee/images/decstation_3100_mouse.jpg http://arvutimuuseum.ut.ee/images/decstation_3100_mouse.jpg
- bananas 13y agoI was never blessed with anything past a VT220 so didn't get to play with one of them. Really did like the VAX series of machines though. First day on the job, I was introduced to a VAXcluster that has an uptime of 6 years. Good times.
- rbanffy 13y agoDon't feel bad. I only got to play with it for a couple hours. Maybe one day I'll be able to own one.
- gfodor 13y agowhat have you designed?
- bananas 13y agoMany enclosures for electronic equipment, front panel designs for avionics and military equipment, many software interfaces, my house (which I'm trying to get planning permission for). I even built software for design and simulation of electronic equipment do you can test usability before you commit to building.
- EGreg 13y agoDefinitely in Apple there are heroes and individual stars Jobs was the center of it all Do you think it would be better to have a more decentralized political structure?
- dalek2point3 13y ago" has meant we have known little about the man who shapes the future, with such innovations as the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone and the iPad." really? Ive regularly appears in public and gives interviews. there's a reason he's famous and well-known. sheesh.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago>> Ive regularly appears in public and gives interviews. Sources? I've only ever seen a few interviews with Ive, nothing in depth and usually related to design with very little emphasis on Apple.
- dalek2point3 13y agohttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=johnny%20ive&sm=3 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=johnny%20ive&sm=... I remember watching Ive in a conversation with Steven Fry on Fry's tour of the US. He was even on Charlie Rose.
- noir_lord 13y ago> The final straw came one rainy day when he drove to Hull to present his design for a new hand basin and toilet for ideal Standard. I was born and have lived in Hull all my life and that sounds about right, in fairness the boss wearing a red nose for a charity day isn't that big a deal. > boss lampooned his work as too modern and too expensive to build — while wearing a giant plastic red nose. I suspect it contained a few more epithets than that.
- nicholassmith 13y agoI like how every interviewer will try get a leading question about future product development, just in case there's a bit of senility that day "Oh yeah that jetpack we're...wait a minute!". It's a bit redundant, we know Apple will work on something new, we know they won't say. Aside from that, nice to read some of Ives thoughts on design.
- kbutler 13y agoTLDR: (This space intentionally left blank.)
- onli 13y agoThis is not an interview. This is a write-up, a summary or a report, of an interview. Is that a Time/US-thing? It's a pity, I would have enjoyed a real interview with him.
- stcredzero 13y ago“Objects and their manufacture are inseparable. You understand a product if you understand how it’s made,” Also goes for software.
- untilHellbanned 13y agoSo Time.com is a Wordpress blog with a header which covers half of the page, pretty low level,
- collypops 13y agoI love the difference in rhetoric when things are written about Ive compared to Jobs. It's subtle, but shows how much we throw around credit: "Ive helped transform computing" vs "Jobs transformed computing"
- ChuckFrank 13y agoWho is stealing from whom? Herr Dieter Rams would like to know.
- thibauts 13y agotl;dr Ive is too humble to openly admit he is/was "the man who designs tomorrow". The first and last lines say it all. This is, to me, a way to convey to the public that Apple's core is not dead with Jobs, after years of attributing him all the miracles. Apple's brand is made of heroes and epics. Ive could well be the next one. The picture they used for the article tells a lot. Good luck Apple ! You deserve it as a team