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> and tell the women if they want to hula hoop, do it some place more private. Indeed. And just in case men still gawked at them, she could have brought some

> and tell the women if they want to hula hoop, do it some place more private. Indeed. And just in case men still gawked at them, she could have brought some free niqab to work for them to wear. http://www.jesusandmo.net/strips/2013-09-18.png http://www.jesusandmo.net/strips/2013-09-18.png

balls187 13y ago
Eh, I think you missed my point. The point of talking to the women isn't to help the men exercise better restraint (which extrapolated to an extreme would require a niqab). It's that if the women are doing something in the office, out in the open that people stopping to watch would make other people feel uncomfortable, then perhaps it shouldn't be done out in plain view of everyone. Like, if you are trying to have a private conversation with your Dr on the phone about your recent herpes outbreak, don't talk in the lunchroom and get pissed that I listened in. We can come up with counter examples, and/or take things to the extreme, however my point is that exercising some restraint and a little professionalism would make situations like this non existent.
- duncan_bayne 13y ago
  No, I got your point quite clearly. If hula hooping women make you uncomfortable, that's unfortunate, but also totally your problem. Ditto breastfeeding and suchlike.
  - balls187 13y ago
    Clearly you did not. > If hula hooping women make you uncomfortable It wasn't women hula hooping made someone feel uncomfortable. It was men "gawking" at the women hula hooping, that made Julie Horvath feel uncomfortable. I hope you understand the difference. > If hula hooping women make you uncomfortable, that's unfortunate, but also totally your problem. Ditto breastfeeding and suchlike. Tangentially related--another key point you're missing, this is an office. No one should have to feel uncomfortable at the workplace, because the office is for people to work and be productive, not hula hoop. Things like hula hooping (I'm guessing), yoga, tai chi, Zumba, etc, are there to improve worker productivity. If these programs run counter to that and actually hinder productivity by making some employees feel uncomfortable, then those programs may not be the right fit for the workplace.
    - duncan_bayne 13y ago
      > No one should have to feel uncomfortable at the workplace I think you're wrong about that. What about religious fundamentalists uncomfortable with gay people? What about conservatives uncomfortable with breastfeeding? What about chauvinists uncomfortable with women in leadership positions? There is no right to 'not feel uncomfortable'. There is no right to 'not to feel offended'. What you have to do is choose who you are going to offend.
trhway 13y ago
if we reverse the genders, do you think no woman would complain (or just gawk) if she saw this happening in the office http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrA5zL9u5NE&feature=player_detailpage#t=263 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrA5zL9u5NE&feature=player_de...
- duncan_bayne 13y ago
  Gawk? Quite possibly. Complain? One* ex-colleague of mine was gay, and he'd have been rendered temporarily incapacitated by that, I suspect. But the point is that hula-hooping, or shirtless weight-lifting, shouldn't be prohibited just because some people gawk and others are made uncomfortable. If you want to sexualise hula-hooping or weight-lifting, fine, just don't use that point of view as the basis of a complaint. * many were; it's just he was the guy I was thinking of for this example
  - balls187 13y ago
    > But the point is that hula-hooping, or shirtless weight-lifting, shouldn't be prohibited just because some people gawk and others are made uncomfortable. You believe it's okay for people to be at the office without their shirts on? Where do you draw the line-- what behaviors should be prohibited at the office, simply because they might make others uncomfortable?
    - trhway 13y ago
      yep, lets throw a shirt on to make it acceptable so nobody would gawk in a office http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzkCA5EyRDQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=230 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzkCA5EyRDQ&feature=player_de...

balls187 13y ago

Eh, I think you missed my point. The point of talking to the women isn't to help the men exercise better restraint (which extrapolated to an extreme would require a niqab). It's that if the women are doing something in the office, out in the open that people stopping to watch would make other people feel uncomfortable, then perhaps it shouldn't be done out in plain view of everyone. Like, if you are trying to have a private conversation with your Dr on the phone about your recent herpes outbreak, don't talk in the lunchroom and get pissed that I listened in. We can come up with counter examples, and/or take things to the extreme, however my point is that exercising some restraint and a little professionalism would make situations like this non existent.

duncan_bayne 13y ago
No, I got your point quite clearly. If hula hooping women make you uncomfortable, that's unfortunate, but also totally your problem. Ditto breastfeeding and suchlike.
- balls187 13y ago
  Clearly you did not. > If hula hooping women make you uncomfortable It wasn't women hula hooping made someone feel uncomfortable. It was men "gawking" at the women hula hooping, that made Julie Horvath feel uncomfortable. I hope you understand the difference. > If hula hooping women make you uncomfortable, that's unfortunate, but also totally your problem. Ditto breastfeeding and suchlike. Tangentially related--another key point you're missing, this is an office. No one should have to feel uncomfortable at the workplace, because the office is for people to work and be productive, not hula hoop. Things like hula hooping (I'm guessing), yoga, tai chi, Zumba, etc, are there to improve worker productivity. If these programs run counter to that and actually hinder productivity by making some employees feel uncomfortable, then those programs may not be the right fit for the workplace.
  - duncan_bayne 13y ago
    > No one should have to feel uncomfortable at the workplace I think you're wrong about that. What about religious fundamentalists uncomfortable with gay people? What about conservatives uncomfortable with breastfeeding? What about chauvinists uncomfortable with women in leadership positions? There is no right to 'not feel uncomfortable'. There is no right to 'not to feel offended'. What you have to do is choose who you are going to offend.

trhway 13y ago

if we reverse the genders, do you think no woman would complain (or just gawk) if she saw this happening in the office http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrA5zL9u5NE&feature=player_detailpage#t=263 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrA5zL9u5NE&feature=player_de...

duncan_bayne 13y ago
Gawk? Quite possibly. Complain? One* ex-colleague of mine was gay, and he'd have been rendered temporarily incapacitated by that, I suspect. But the point is that hula-hooping, or shirtless weight-lifting, shouldn't be prohibited just because some people gawk and others are made uncomfortable. If you want to sexualise hula-hooping or weight-lifting, fine, just don't use that point of view as the basis of a complaint. * many were; it's just he was the guy I was thinking of for this example
- balls187 13y ago
  > But the point is that hula-hooping, or shirtless weight-lifting, shouldn't be prohibited just because some people gawk and others are made uncomfortable. You believe it's okay for people to be at the office without their shirts on? Where do you draw the line-- what behaviors should be prohibited at the office, simply because they might make others uncomfortable?
  - trhway 13y ago
    yep, lets throw a shirt on to make it acceptable so nobody would gawk in a office http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzkCA5EyRDQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=230 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzkCA5EyRDQ&feature=player_de...