6 ms·

It's pretty odd for women to be hula hooping, I've never seen that, but Julia's reaction to is is bananas. How does that make her feel threatened? Can't she jus

by hnriot 13y ago

It's pretty odd for women to be hula hooping, I've never seen that, but Julia's reaction to is is bananas. How does that make her feel threatened? Can't she just ignore it, of course men are going to look, did the women think nobody would notice? To me this belittles any legitimate claim she might have, if she's this irrational about this event, then it clouds my view of other things she says. She also sounds confused, unless the women doing hula hooping were also taking off their clothes then I fail to see how she thinks this looks like anything at a strip club. If the hula women were stripping then she has a legitimate claim that this is inappropriate in the workplace, otherwise I don't see how this is any different to table tennis or air hockey etc.

gruntmaster9000 13y ago
Death by a thousand cuts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normality
qdog 13y ago
So, if you hula hoop in public you are asking to be ogled? Was she asking for it? Was she asking nice? Yeah, she was asking for it Did she ask you twice? - "Asking For It" Courtney Love and Eric Erlandson "We had just gotten off tour with Mudhoney, and I decided to stage-dive. I was wearing a dress and I didn't realize what I was engendering in the audience. It was a huge audience and they were kind of going ape-shit. So I just dove off the stage, and suddenly, it was like my dress was being torn off of me, my underwear was being torn off of me, people were putting their fingers inside of me and grabbing my breasts really hard, screaming things in my ears like "pussy-whore-cunt". When I got back onstage I was naked. I felt like Karen Finley. But the worst thing of all was that I saw a photograph of it later. Someone took a picture of me right when this was happening, and I had this big smile on my face like I was pretending it wasn't happening. So later I wrote a song called "Asking For It" based on the whole experience. I can't compare it to rape because it's not the same. But in a way it was. I was raped by an audience, figuratively, literally, and yet, was I asking for it?" - Courtney Love
- leccine 13y ago
  What does a semi-gangrape at a metal concert has to do with an innocent silly act in a SF office? Nobody forced anything on anybody... If you are so much hatred just move your desk to the other side of the building or work from home your just freakin' get a life before start any interaction with other human beings...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- hnriot 13y ago
  If anyone starts hula hooping at my office they will surely attract a lot of attention because it's just not something people do at work (YMMV) I didn't say she was asking for anything, I said her credibility is weakened by her reaction to this. Try it, get any two people at your workplace to hula hoop and see if people come and watch, gawk or whatever word you want to call it. And why quote Courtney Love at me, that's about as ridiculous as quoting Germaine Greer in response. What did CL think would happen when she jumped off stage? She of all people understands human sexuality, and was exploiting it. She says the big smile was her pretending it was happening, however, there are a million other interpretations. If I jump into a hungry lion's den do I complain when I get eaten? Ask yourself why CL is says it wasn't rape and then it was, she's a very astute woman and knows exactly how to exploit the attention she garners, because she sure as hell is a lousy singer. Hula hooping doesn't look like stripping, any which way you want to spin it, so given that she has her normality barometer so poorly calibrated, how can we believe much else she says without applying the same thought process?
  - qdog 13y ago
    Hula hoopers weren't compared to strippers, the gawkers were compared to how "customers" behave at the strip club. I know lots of women who do not enjoy being "gawked" at, including my wife and daughter. I don't think it was expected for CL to be stripped of her clothing for stage diving, even if it maybe wasn't the best idea. However, if her gender wasn't female, she probably would have had no problems stage diving. I was insinuating that blaming the victim was your viewpoint, which it still seems to be.
rcruzeiro 13y ago
I think we shouldn't read too much on her reaction to the hula hooping. As she said, it was the last straw, and in my experience the last straw usually isn't that significant by itself. Maybe, on any other day she would have been annoyed, as it was something that she didn't appreciate, but would have let it go. However, after all the trouble with the founder, his wife and the admirer, she saw the hola hooping as a sign that it was better for her to leave.
mareofnight 13y ago
It makes a person feel threatened because it implies that your co-workers think of /you/ as eye candy too. And if that's all you are, then you can't trust others to take you and your needs seriously. You can't deal with it by ignoring it, because it's not the staring that's the problem, it's what it indicates about how the gawkers view their female coworkers. (How you're viewed matters because that affects whether anyone will listen and help you when you have a problem, and if they'll expect unreasonable things from you - like the coworker who removed a bunch of Julia's code after she turned him down for a date.) Or at least, that's how I feel about it, when I try to put myself in the place of someone who saw this happening, and took it as a sexual sort of staring rather than a "what the heck are my silly coworkers doing" kind of staring. It's also possible that Julia misunderstood what was going on, or exaggerated - we don't have enough information to know.
- BSousa 13y ago
  But wasn't she dating someone that worked there? (was she already dating before joining GitHub or did they meet there?) This for me says that she think it is ok for there to be some kind of attraction between co-workers, so I don't see how men gawking to two women hula hooping is the last straw for her. Of course, if they were screaming 'take it off' or similar, I would agree, but supposedly attractive women doing activities that make their bodies 'jiggle' in a public setting and expect men not to look or stare is ridiculous, and going from that to 'not feeling safe' is too much of a stretch. I understand maybe the previous issues colored her understanding of the situation, but it does leave a bad feeling in my gut that she may just be a drama queen which makes me question her reports on the other issues.

by hnriot 13y ago

gruntmaster9000 13y ago

Death by a thousand cuts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normality

qdog 13y ago

So, if you hula hoop in public you are asking to be ogled? Was she asking for it? Was she asking nice? Yeah, she was asking for it Did she ask you twice? - "Asking For It" Courtney Love and Eric Erlandson "We had just gotten off tour with Mudhoney, and I decided to stage-dive. I was wearing a dress and I didn't realize what I was engendering in the audience. It was a huge audience and they were kind of going ape-shit. So I just dove off the stage, and suddenly, it was like my dress was being torn off of me, my underwear was being torn off of me, people were putting their fingers inside of me and grabbing my breasts really hard, screaming things in my ears like "pussy-whore-cunt". When I got back onstage I was naked. I felt like Karen Finley. But the worst thing of all was that I saw a photograph of it later. Someone took a picture of me right when this was happening, and I had this big smile on my face like I was pretending it wasn't happening. So later I wrote a song called "Asking For It" based on the whole experience. I can't compare it to rape because it's not the same. But in a way it was. I was raped by an audience, figuratively, literally, and yet, was I asking for it?" - Courtney Love

leccine 13y ago
What does a semi-gangrape at a metal concert has to do with an innocent silly act in a SF office? Nobody forced anything on anybody... If you are so much hatred just move your desk to the other side of the building or work from home your just freakin' get a life before start any interaction with other human beings...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
hnriot 13y ago
If anyone starts hula hooping at my office they will surely attract a lot of attention because it's just not something people do at work (YMMV) I didn't say she was asking for anything, I said her credibility is weakened by her reaction to this. Try it, get any two people at your workplace to hula hoop and see if people come and watch, gawk or whatever word you want to call it. And why quote Courtney Love at me, that's about as ridiculous as quoting Germaine Greer in response. What did CL think would happen when she jumped off stage? She of all people understands human sexuality, and was exploiting it. She says the big smile was her pretending it was happening, however, there are a million other interpretations. If I jump into a hungry lion's den do I complain when I get eaten? Ask yourself why CL is says it wasn't rape and then it was, she's a very astute woman and knows exactly how to exploit the attention she garners, because she sure as hell is a lousy singer. Hula hooping doesn't look like stripping, any which way you want to spin it, so given that she has her normality barometer so poorly calibrated, how can we believe much else she says without applying the same thought process?
- qdog 13y ago
  Hula hoopers weren't compared to strippers, the gawkers were compared to how "customers" behave at the strip club. I know lots of women who do not enjoy being "gawked" at, including my wife and daughter. I don't think it was expected for CL to be stripped of her clothing for stage diving, even if it maybe wasn't the best idea. However, if her gender wasn't female, she probably would have had no problems stage diving. I was insinuating that blaming the victim was your viewpoint, which it still seems to be.

rcruzeiro 13y ago

I think we shouldn't read too much on her reaction to the hula hooping. As she said, it was the last straw, and in my experience the last straw usually isn't that significant by itself. Maybe, on any other day she would have been annoyed, as it was something that she didn't appreciate, but would have let it go. However, after all the trouble with the founder, his wife and the admirer, she saw the hola hooping as a sign that it was better for her to leave.

mareofnight 13y ago

It makes a person feel threatened because it implies that your co-workers think of /you/ as eye candy too. And if that's all you are, then you can't trust others to take you and your needs seriously. You can't deal with it by ignoring it, because it's not the staring that's the problem, it's what it indicates about how the gawkers view their female coworkers. (How you're viewed matters because that affects whether anyone will listen and help you when you have a problem, and if they'll expect unreasonable things from you - like the coworker who removed a bunch of Julia's code after she turned him down for a date.) Or at least, that's how I feel about it, when I try to put myself in the place of someone who saw this happening, and took it as a sexual sort of staring rather than a "what the heck are my silly coworkers doing" kind of staring. It's also possible that Julia misunderstood what was going on, or exaggerated - we don't have enough information to know.

BSousa 13y ago
But wasn't she dating someone that worked there? (was she already dating before joining GitHub or did they meet there?) This for me says that she think it is ok for there to be some kind of attraction between co-workers, so I don't see how men gawking to two women hula hooping is the last straw for her. Of course, if they were screaming 'take it off' or similar, I would agree, but supposedly attractive women doing activities that make their bodies 'jiggle' in a public setting and expect men not to look or stare is ridiculous, and going from that to 'not feeling safe' is too much of a stretch. I understand maybe the previous issues colored her understanding of the situation, but it does leave a bad feeling in my gut that she may just be a drama queen which makes me question her reports on the other issues.