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This was written by a state communist, so you can imagine what "structure" she advocated, and the anarchists immediately replied with The Tyranny of Tyranny ht

This was written by a state communist, so you can imagine what "structure" she advocated, and the anarchists immediately replied with The Tyranny of Tyranny http://www.libcom.org/library/tyranny-of-tyranny-cathy-levine http://www.libcom.org/library/tyranny-of-tyranny-cathy-levin...

pron 13y ago
Except history, in Silicon Valley (http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/01/how-silicon-valley-became-the-man/ http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/01/how-silicon-valley-became-the-m...) as elsewhere, is unequivocally on Jo Freeman's side. No actual revolution (as opposed to imagined ones) ever managed to remain structureless, and those that aspired to be the most structureless quickly became as oppressive as the most tyrannical ones.
- jahaja 13y ago
  For additional context; what/which revolution(s) are you thinking about that aspired to be the most structureless but became as oppressive as the most tyrannical ones?
  - pron 13y ago
    Pretty much all the communist ones; the French; counterculture (see the linked article as well as Adam Curtis's documentaries)
    - watwut 13y ago
      Communists never aspired to be structureless, definitely not in the short term. Even utopia they promised in long term had element of forced conformity with system aka oppression. Path towards that utopia was supposed to go through strong party discipline and obeisance. That is how communist party survived oppression in Russia. It was not supposed to be "free" or "structureless" in any current meaning of the word. I now much less about French revolution, but what I know suggests it was very complicated event. Describing it as simple attempt to move towards structureless society is simplifying it too much.
    - jahaja 13y ago
      I have to agree with watwut. This is a bit unnuanced and oversimplifying things.
DenisM 13y ago
We don't have to imagine, the structure she advocates is spelled out at the end of the article.
mrxd 13y ago
Yes, there's a link to that at the bottom of the original link. There's also a comment: "if you examine it carefully I think you will see that it actually does little but evade the issue." I found that to be true.

pron 13y ago

Except history, in Silicon Valley (http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/01/how-silicon-valley-became-the-man/ http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/01/how-silicon-valley-became-the-m...) as elsewhere, is unequivocally on Jo Freeman's side. No actual revolution (as opposed to imagined ones) ever managed to remain structureless, and those that aspired to be the most structureless quickly became as oppressive as the most tyrannical ones.

jahaja 13y ago
For additional context; what/which revolution(s) are you thinking about that aspired to be the most structureless but became as oppressive as the most tyrannical ones?
- pron 13y ago
  Pretty much all the communist ones; the French; counterculture (see the linked article as well as Adam Curtis's documentaries)
  - watwut 13y ago
    Communists never aspired to be structureless, definitely not in the short term. Even utopia they promised in long term had element of forced conformity with system aka oppression. Path towards that utopia was supposed to go through strong party discipline and obeisance. That is how communist party survived oppression in Russia. It was not supposed to be "free" or "structureless" in any current meaning of the word. I now much less about French revolution, but what I know suggests it was very complicated event. Describing it as simple attempt to move towards structureless society is simplifying it too much.
  - jahaja 13y ago
    I have to agree with watwut. This is a bit unnuanced and oversimplifying things.

DenisM 13y ago

We don't have to imagine, the structure she advocates is spelled out at the end of the article.

mrxd 13y ago

Yes, there's a link to that at the bottom of the original link. There's also a comment: "if you examine it carefully I think you will see that it actually does little but evade the issue." I found that to be true.