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I agree with your general point, but Stanford and Harvard in particular aren't great examples, because for many people they're considerably cheaper than public

by mjn 13y ago

I agree with your general point, but Stanford and Harvard in particular aren't great examples, because for many people they're considerably cheaper than public universities, if you can get in. Both schools have pretty generous tuition reductions, all the way down to fully waiving tuition plus paying you a stipend for living expenses, if your family makes below about the 60th percentile of household incomes. Even up to about the 80th percentile they may still come out cheaper than a public university. Harvard has a sliding scale between 60th-90th percentile, where 60th percentile pays nothing, and 90th percentile ($150k/yr) pays the full "sticker price" tuition. The schools that are really expensive for people from the middle-ish of the income distribution are the private schools that don't have as lavish endowments as Stanford and Harvard do, who therefore offer much less generous reductions, generally only need-based aid to considerably poorer people, not circa-median-income people.

Bahamut 13y ago
Not quite true - the expensive private schools will make sure to suck you dry as much as possible before filling in the rest. One of my colleagues while I was in grad school mentioned to me that he went to Princeton for undergrad, and the school pretty much took all spare $ they could, even his inheritance once his grandmother died.
- mjn 13y ago
  What's not true about what I said? Princeton isn't one of the schools that has tuition reductions for middle-income families.
  - chimeracoder 13y ago
    I went to an Ivy League school (not Princeton), and I looked at most of them when considering which schools to apply to. As of when I applied to college, all the Ivy League schools committed to meeting 100% of "demonstrated financial need"[0]. Princeton was the only one (IIRC) that offered all its financial aid in the form of grants (no loans). In that sense, it has the most undergraduate-friendly financial aid process. HOWEVER, "demonstrated financial need" is a murky term, and I have seen it be abused in practice, at all of these schools. An unfortunate consequence is that it can create a "doughnut hole" - the burden often falls on people who are just above the line that the school draws for financial aid[1]. This can hurt the middle class families who have enough money not to qualify for the same level of financial aid, but not enough to pay for the college without significant financial pain[2]. Of course, the schools often have little incentive to solve this, because the "significant financial pain" that these families feel takes the form of either private student loans (which the students pay for later), or subsidized federal loans (which are subsidized by taxpayers). So, costs keep going up and up. I saw a graph recently that compared the tuition (and also tuition + other expenses) of private education compared to inflation, and it was staggering. [0] They all also have an agreement not to provide any merit-based scholarships (only need-based). [1] It's usually stepwise, not a single line, but the same idea holds [2] The "demonstrated financial need" can also be very easily abused by the affluent. I know one student who received very heavy financial aid, despite her family being incredibly well-off. I can't remember, but I think they structured their assets and income on paper so that it looked like their daughter was an "independent" payer. She received close to a full ride, while her parents had enough money to regularly write 5- and 6-figure checks to their pet charities.

by mjn 13y ago

Bahamut 13y ago

Not quite true - the expensive private schools will make sure to suck you dry as much as possible before filling in the rest. One of my colleagues while I was in grad school mentioned to me that he went to Princeton for undergrad, and the school pretty much took all spare $ they could, even his inheritance once his grandmother died.

mjn 13y ago
What's not true about what I said? Princeton isn't one of the schools that has tuition reductions for middle-income families.
- chimeracoder 13y ago
  I went to an Ivy League school (not Princeton), and I looked at most of them when considering which schools to apply to. As of when I applied to college, all the Ivy League schools committed to meeting 100% of "demonstrated financial need"[0]. Princeton was the only one (IIRC) that offered all its financial aid in the form of grants (no loans). In that sense, it has the most undergraduate-friendly financial aid process. HOWEVER, "demonstrated financial need" is a murky term, and I have seen it be abused in practice, at all of these schools. An unfortunate consequence is that it can create a "doughnut hole" - the burden often falls on people who are just above the line that the school draws for financial aid[1]. This can hurt the middle class families who have enough money not to qualify for the same level of financial aid, but not enough to pay for the college without significant financial pain[2]. Of course, the schools often have little incentive to solve this, because the "significant financial pain" that these families feel takes the form of either private student loans (which the students pay for later), or subsidized federal loans (which are subsidized by taxpayers). So, costs keep going up and up. I saw a graph recently that compared the tuition (and also tuition + other expenses) of private education compared to inflation, and it was staggering. [0] They all also have an agreement not to provide any merit-based scholarships (only need-based). [1] It's usually stepwise, not a single line, but the same idea holds [2] The "demonstrated financial need" can also be very easily abused by the affluent. I know one student who received very heavy financial aid, despite her family being incredibly well-off. I can't remember, but I think they structured their assets and income on paper so that it looked like their daughter was an "independent" payer. She received close to a full ride, while her parents had enough money to regularly write 5- and 6-figure checks to their pet charities.