5 ms·

In Europe, malls are still constructed in many places and they have the advantage of being built a few decades after many of the US malls. Where I live summers

by flexie 13y ago

In Europe, malls are still constructed in many places and they have the advantage of being built a few decades after many of the US malls. Where I live summers are a bit too warm and winters a bit too cold to make outdoor shopping joyful. Also, streets are noisy and full of aggressive drivers and the sidewalks are full of holes and broken tiles. So in the last few years this 1.5M population city has seen the construction of 10 shopping malls, most of which are actually really nice "gathering places" as you put it and most of which seem to thrive. One advantage from most of the US malls that I have been to is that cars are parked under the malls, not around them, that most of the malls are built near subway or tram stops and that they somehow fit nicely into the surrounding architecture. Often the malls are built in the city center and usually in a very nice quality. Usually the malls have one major supermarket chain in the basement that acts as an anchor store and usually they have a cinema and a food court in the top floor that offers not just the usual fast food but often also some decent food. I really enjoy shopping in a mall and until someone fixes the problem of waiting and paying for delivery I don't see online shopping making malls obsolete.

analog31 13y ago
On a brief but pleasant trip to Switzerland, I got around using their wonderful transit system. Every transit station was also a commercial hub. Big stations had big shops like supermarkets and department stores. Little stations had little shops like bakeries and banks. Any restructuring of retail shopping in the US would have to include thinking about how entire districts are laid out. It takes one person -- the owner -- to restructure a mall, but considerably more cooperation and time to restructure neighborhoods.
- bane 13y ago
  In some cases this is already happening. The best known example I can think of is Tyson's Corner in Northern Virginia. Already a shopping and commercial area, they're building the a new metro line out to it. This is coinciding with a restructuring of the entire area to be pedestrian friendly instead of car focused and it's absolutely transforming the entire city. It's probably the largest restructuring program in the U.S. at present. Each metro stop is either a shopping paradise or near a bunch of professional offices. All new residential complexes are being planned and the area is absolutely exploding with activity. http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/tysons/ http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/tysons/
  - rayiner 13y ago
    Tysons is the suck. They're not restructuring it so much as trying to work around the piss-poor depressingly suburban "urban planning" of the place. Yes, it's got a metro line now, but it's a big concrete monstrosity along the middle of a huge multi-lane road, instead of the sleek, organic, integrated transit you see in places like Chicago or New York.[1] Most of the stops drop you off in a giant parking lot along side Route 7. The attempts to make Tyson's "pedestrian friendly" involve basically giving up on the existing street-level and building an elevated walking level connecting the mall and a few office buildings and apartment buildings. A much better example is Atlantic Station in Atlanta: http://atlanticstation.com http://atlanticstation.com. They nuked the existing streets and put in a human-scale street grid: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Atlantic_Station_courtyard.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Atlantic_.... All the parking is underground or at the periphery of the development. The only thing missing is a subway stop (the Arts Center stop is across that awful oppressive highway). [1] Contrast http://wamu.org/sites/wamu.org/files/styles/headline_landscape/public/images/attach/07.03.12news-cooper-silver-line-edit.jpg?itok=GKYr6RC0 http://wamu.org/sites/wamu.org/files/styles/headline_landsca... with http://mlmerillat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/chicago-el1.jpg http://mlmerillat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/chicago-el1.jp....
    - bane 13y ago
      Yeah Tysons is still a warzone right now. But they're on something like year 5 of a 35 year restructuring plan. I still have high hopes. There's lots of weirdness left over from the previous "design", like stations letting off into low density areas like next to a bunch of car dealerships. But the overall plan I think is still promising. If they can convert those low density areas into high density housing, offices and mixed-zone shopping. I do wish it was more revolutionary like your examples, but there's not much reason to think that Tyson's won't look a bit more like Chicago's loop in 20 years. I'm actually on the side of wishing our local politicians had gotten their heads out of their asses and buried the lines, but we get what we get and I'm of the ilk that still thinks elevated lines look retro futuristic and cool. http://cooldcre.com/image_store/uploads/8/6/5/6/4/ar134369759946568.jpg http://cooldcre.com/image_store/uploads/8/6/5/6/4/ar13436975... http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2011/02/tysons-developers-plan-40-acres-along.html http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2011/02/tysons-developers-plan-40-... http://thetysonscorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Tysons_west-Render.jpg http://thetysonscorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Tysons... TBH, it doesn't affect me at all, except that Tyson's, being so overly car centric, is a place I don't go because it's such a grind to get around right now. That and I'm still hoping they extend the line out to Dulles so we'll finally live in a fully connected urban area that befits the density of NoVA and D.C.
rch 13y ago
>One advantage from most of the US malls...is that cars are parked under the malls, not around them... Thanks for bringing this up. Dealing with parking is a much more complex problem than was assumed for the last 50 years or so. Better modeling should improve the situation going forward though, and could help effectively redevelop some of these megamall wastelands too.
- TylerE 13y ago
  I imagine that big part of that is the large percentage of the US population that leaves on or near a coast. Major underground excavation isn't really possible when ground level is only 10m or so above sea level/the water table.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Some malls in Spain use attached parking buildings instead. They aren't pretty, but they do allow the mall to remain inside the city.
WalterBright 13y ago
A few years ago I went to a mall in Stuttgart. The interesting thing was I could have been in any mall in America. The layout, architecture, parking garage, etc., was right out of the US, and even the advertising was all in English. It's like eating at McDonald's in Tokyo. What's the point?
- twoodfin 13y ago
  It's like eating at McDonald's in Tokyo. What's the point? Shaka Shaka Chicken, of course.
- dagw 13y ago
  What's the point? To quote Pulp fiction "It's the little differences". I love going to malls and supermarkets when I'm in a new country or city. Sure they're 95% the same, but those other 5% are often unique for the area and quite telling.
  - WalterBright 13y ago
    I lived in Germany around 1970 when there were no malls or McDonald's there. What was fun was even department stores were palpably different than in the US. Everything was different, and that made it much more fun. Even the grocery stores were way, way different (I sure loved the German cheese selection!).
  - navbaker 13y ago
    The Villagio in Doha is a good example of little differences, like an ice skating rink located in the middle of the food court and a knock-off of the Venetian's canal running through it.
- tinkerdol 13y ago
  Which mall in Stuttgart? I lived there a few years ago and never noticed the shopping areas looking American...
  - WalterBright 13y ago
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
There is no such thing as "Europe". I don't know of any malls being constructed in the Netherlands.
- ako 13y ago
  Leidschenhage (http://www.denhaagdirect.nl/winkelcentrum-leidschenhage-verbouwd-tot-grootste-overdekte-winkelcentrum-van-nederland/ http://www.denhaagdirect.nl/winkelcentrum-leidschenhage-verb...) In de Bogaard, includes 3 malls according to http://www.denhaag.nl/en/residents/to/In-de-Bogaard.htm http://www.denhaag.nl/en/residents/to/In-de-Bogaard.htm
- mwfunk 13y ago
  This actually isn't true. Europe is a real place, unlike Middle Earth or Narnia or Canada. It's just west of Asia and north of Africa, if you can believe it!

by flexie 13y ago

analog31 13y ago

On a brief but pleasant trip to Switzerland, I got around using their wonderful transit system. Every transit station was also a commercial hub. Big stations had big shops like supermarkets and department stores. Little stations had little shops like bakeries and banks. Any restructuring of retail shopping in the US would have to include thinking about how entire districts are laid out. It takes one person -- the owner -- to restructure a mall, but considerably more cooperation and time to restructure neighborhoods.

bane 13y ago
In some cases this is already happening. The best known example I can think of is Tyson's Corner in Northern Virginia. Already a shopping and commercial area, they're building the a new metro line out to it. This is coinciding with a restructuring of the entire area to be pedestrian friendly instead of car focused and it's absolutely transforming the entire city. It's probably the largest restructuring program in the U.S. at present. Each metro stop is either a shopping paradise or near a bunch of professional offices. All new residential complexes are being planned and the area is absolutely exploding with activity. http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/tysons/ http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/tysons/
- rayiner 13y ago
  Tysons is the suck. They're not restructuring it so much as trying to work around the piss-poor depressingly suburban "urban planning" of the place. Yes, it's got a metro line now, but it's a big concrete monstrosity along the middle of a huge multi-lane road, instead of the sleek, organic, integrated transit you see in places like Chicago or New York.[1] Most of the stops drop you off in a giant parking lot along side Route 7. The attempts to make Tyson's "pedestrian friendly" involve basically giving up on the existing street-level and building an elevated walking level connecting the mall and a few office buildings and apartment buildings. A much better example is Atlantic Station in Atlanta: http://atlanticstation.com http://atlanticstation.com. They nuked the existing streets and put in a human-scale street grid: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Atlantic_Station_courtyard.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Atlantic_.... All the parking is underground or at the periphery of the development. The only thing missing is a subway stop (the Arts Center stop is across that awful oppressive highway). [1] Contrast http://wamu.org/sites/wamu.org/files/styles/headline_landscape/public/images/attach/07.03.12news-cooper-silver-line-edit.jpg?itok=GKYr6RC0 http://wamu.org/sites/wamu.org/files/styles/headline_landsca... with http://mlmerillat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/chicago-el1.jpg http://mlmerillat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/chicago-el1.jp....
  - bane 13y ago
    Yeah Tysons is still a warzone right now. But they're on something like year 5 of a 35 year restructuring plan. I still have high hopes. There's lots of weirdness left over from the previous "design", like stations letting off into low density areas like next to a bunch of car dealerships. But the overall plan I think is still promising. If they can convert those low density areas into high density housing, offices and mixed-zone shopping. I do wish it was more revolutionary like your examples, but there's not much reason to think that Tyson's won't look a bit more like Chicago's loop in 20 years. I'm actually on the side of wishing our local politicians had gotten their heads out of their asses and buried the lines, but we get what we get and I'm of the ilk that still thinks elevated lines look retro futuristic and cool. http://cooldcre.com/image_store/uploads/8/6/5/6/4/ar134369759946568.jpg http://cooldcre.com/image_store/uploads/8/6/5/6/4/ar13436975... http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2011/02/tysons-developers-plan-40-acres-along.html http://dcmud.blogspot.com/2011/02/tysons-developers-plan-40-... http://thetysonscorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Tysons_west-Render.jpg http://thetysonscorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Tysons... TBH, it doesn't affect me at all, except that Tyson's, being so overly car centric, is a place I don't go because it's such a grind to get around right now. That and I'm still hoping they extend the line out to Dulles so we'll finally live in a fully connected urban area that befits the density of NoVA and D.C.

rch 13y ago

>One advantage from most of the US malls...is that cars are parked under the malls, not around them... Thanks for bringing this up. Dealing with parking is a much more complex problem than was assumed for the last 50 years or so. Better modeling should improve the situation going forward though, and could help effectively redevelop some of these megamall wastelands too.

TylerE 13y ago
I imagine that big part of that is the large percentage of the US population that leaves on or near a coast. Major underground excavation isn't really possible when ground level is only 10m or so above sea level/the water table.
- icebraining 13y ago
  Some malls in Spain use attached parking buildings instead. They aren't pretty, but they do allow the mall to remain inside the city.

WalterBright 13y ago

A few years ago I went to a mall in Stuttgart. The interesting thing was I could have been in any mall in America. The layout, architecture, parking garage, etc., was right out of the US, and even the advertising was all in English. It's like eating at McDonald's in Tokyo. What's the point?

twoodfin 13y ago
It's like eating at McDonald's in Tokyo. What's the point? Shaka Shaka Chicken, of course.
dagw 13y ago
What's the point? To quote Pulp fiction "It's the little differences". I love going to malls and supermarkets when I'm in a new country or city. Sure they're 95% the same, but those other 5% are often unique for the area and quite telling.
- WalterBright 13y ago
  I lived in Germany around 1970 when there were no malls or McDonald's there. What was fun was even department stores were palpably different than in the US. Everything was different, and that made it much more fun. Even the grocery stores were way, way different (I sure loved the German cheese selection!).
- navbaker 13y ago
  The Villagio in Doha is a good example of little differences, like an ice skating rink located in the middle of the food court and a knock-off of the Venetian's canal running through it.
tinkerdol 13y ago
Which mall in Stuttgart? I lived there a few years ago and never noticed the shopping areas looking American...
- WalterBright 13y ago

bowlofpetunias 13y ago

There is no such thing as "Europe". I don't know of any malls being constructed in the Netherlands.

ako 13y ago
Leidschenhage (http://www.denhaagdirect.nl/winkelcentrum-leidschenhage-verbouwd-tot-grootste-overdekte-winkelcentrum-van-nederland/ http://www.denhaagdirect.nl/winkelcentrum-leidschenhage-verb...) In de Bogaard, includes 3 malls according to http://www.denhaag.nl/en/residents/to/In-de-Bogaard.htm http://www.denhaag.nl/en/residents/to/In-de-Bogaard.htm
mwfunk 13y ago
This actually isn't true. Europe is a real place, unlike Middle Earth or Narnia or Canada. It's just west of Asia and north of Africa, if you can believe it!