4 ms·

You make it sound as though racism against black people is a largely resolved old issue rather than an active and present problem. I invite you to take a walk

by gress 13y ago

You make it sound as though racism against black people is a largely resolved old issue rather than an active and present problem. I invite you to take a walk around Oakland and SF and see if you think that is still true.

vezzy-fnord 13y ago
It's not resolved, but it has improved drastically. There's still barriers, primarily in socioeconomic status and tendencies to cluster in ghettos as a result, but it is still far better than one could have ever imagined. If you want a crippling issue, go for homophobia. Homophobia is still very much rampant in the USA and it is still completely fine for politicians to be openly homophobic for reasons like "preserving family values". Yet when was the last time you heard a US politician make openly racist and white supremacist statements? When has a white supremacist been elected? David Duke is the most recent example I can name of, and he was reviled. Racism for US politicians is an instant career killer, no question. Race is a touchy issue and the moment a representative says something unfavorable concerning race, they get annihilated by press and public advocacy. Not the same for homophobia. It's time people stop with their persecution complexes. The past is the past. No one owes you anything.
- gress 13y ago
  > It's time people stop with their persecution complexes. The past is the past. No one owes you anything. So really you are claiming that racism is over as a problem. Nice.
  - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
    No, I'm not. You're twisting my words to fit your agenda. By dividing complex social issues into dichotomies of "oppressor versus oppressed" and allowing double standards as a perverse form of reparation for past injustices that current generations no longer have to suffer from, you are exacerbating the issue of race. The ultimate goal should be to render race as a non-defining characteristic, one that should not cloud peoples' judgement or fuel their insensitivity. Instead, what's going on is that we're turning race into an emotional circus. The fact is that being white by itself does not mean your ancestors were involved in the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Mine were too busy being under Ottoman rule. Conversely, being black does not make you exempt. Many tribal warlords traded slaves with the Europeans voluntarily. There were some few thousand or so black slave owners in the USA before abolition. People are not responsible for what their ancestors perpetrated in the past, and the world does not revolve around the West. Yet these ideologies of white guilt and reparation act like it's exactly that way. What you're doing is turning race into a novelty.
    - erikpukinskis 13y ago
      > The ultimate goal should be to render race as a non-defining characteristic That's a pretty OK goal, although it's unrealistic, because we can only get closer to that by successive approximation. However your real mistake is trying to use your long term goal (ignoring race) as a short term strategy (ignoring racism). You're correct that racism is a less big deal in many contexts than it used to be. But for the time being, racism is quite a big thing in many other contexts. And ignoring it won't help get us to the place where we can safely ignore it.
      - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
        Then what do you propose? Exacerbating it?
        erikpukinskis 13y ago
        I would propose learning what you can about what it's like for people different than you so that you have more opportunities to lend help and compassion.
    - gress 13y ago
      Racism isn't about the past.
    - SnydenBitchy 13y ago
      Just out of curiosity (not interested in joining the debate)—do you mind if I ask whereabouts do you live? Bay area, east coast, somewhere else?
- Borogove 13y ago
  I'm white and queer and can assure you that racism and sexism are much more serious problems than homophobia in the US.
  - Crake 13y ago
    Right, because gay people have civil rights but black people and women don't... Then again "queer" these days often means "straight but wants tumblr oppression points," so your perspective might be different from an actual gay person's.
deleted 13y ago
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by gress 13y ago

vezzy-fnord 13y ago

It's not resolved, but it has improved drastically. There's still barriers, primarily in socioeconomic status and tendencies to cluster in ghettos as a result, but it is still far better than one could have ever imagined. If you want a crippling issue, go for homophobia. Homophobia is still very much rampant in the USA and it is still completely fine for politicians to be openly homophobic for reasons like "preserving family values". Yet when was the last time you heard a US politician make openly racist and white supremacist statements? When has a white supremacist been elected? David Duke is the most recent example I can name of, and he was reviled. Racism for US politicians is an instant career killer, no question. Race is a touchy issue and the moment a representative says something unfavorable concerning race, they get annihilated by press and public advocacy. Not the same for homophobia. It's time people stop with their persecution complexes. The past is the past. No one owes you anything.

gress 13y ago
> It's time people stop with their persecution complexes. The past is the past. No one owes you anything. So really you are claiming that racism is over as a problem. Nice.
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  No, I'm not. You're twisting my words to fit your agenda. By dividing complex social issues into dichotomies of "oppressor versus oppressed" and allowing double standards as a perverse form of reparation for past injustices that current generations no longer have to suffer from, you are exacerbating the issue of race. The ultimate goal should be to render race as a non-defining characteristic, one that should not cloud peoples' judgement or fuel their insensitivity. Instead, what's going on is that we're turning race into an emotional circus. The fact is that being white by itself does not mean your ancestors were involved in the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Mine were too busy being under Ottoman rule. Conversely, being black does not make you exempt. Many tribal warlords traded slaves with the Europeans voluntarily. There were some few thousand or so black slave owners in the USA before abolition. People are not responsible for what their ancestors perpetrated in the past, and the world does not revolve around the West. Yet these ideologies of white guilt and reparation act like it's exactly that way. What you're doing is turning race into a novelty.
  - erikpukinskis 13y ago
    > The ultimate goal should be to render race as a non-defining characteristic That's a pretty OK goal, although it's unrealistic, because we can only get closer to that by successive approximation. However your real mistake is trying to use your long term goal (ignoring race) as a short term strategy (ignoring racism). You're correct that racism is a less big deal in many contexts than it used to be. But for the time being, racism is quite a big thing in many other contexts. And ignoring it won't help get us to the place where we can safely ignore it.
    - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
      Then what do you propose? Exacerbating it?
      - erikpukinskis 13y ago
        I would propose learning what you can about what it's like for people different than you so that you have more opportunities to lend help and compassion.
  - gress 13y ago
    Racism isn't about the past.
  - SnydenBitchy 13y ago
    Just out of curiosity (not interested in joining the debate)—do you mind if I ask whereabouts do you live? Bay area, east coast, somewhere else?
Borogove 13y ago
I'm white and queer and can assure you that racism and sexism are much more serious problems than homophobia in the US.
- Crake 13y ago
  Right, because gay people have civil rights but black people and women don't... Then again "queer" these days often means "straight but wants tumblr oppression points," so your perspective might be different from an actual gay person's.

deleted 13y ago

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