4 ms·

After reading the article, it became pretty clear to me that whatever manner of "culture" github appears to be permeating internally, she was very far from it.

After reading the article, it became pretty clear to me that whatever manner of "culture" github appears to be permeating internally, she was very far from it. This indicates she was a bad hire from the get-go. Hiring isn't just about talent, it's also about cultural fit, and while it's difficult to know with precision who fits a cultural dynamic, 1) such an issue is bound to arise as a company grows and 2) there had to be indications that she was incredibly sensitive early on.

r0muald 13y ago
Apparently they were as excited to have her onboard as with any other new hire at the time: https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubber https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubbe...
- jessaustin 13y ago
  What's the point? Presumably they make similar announcements for many new hires, although I have to wonder if those are illustrated by such pore-stretchingly enormous head photos.
  - r0muald 13y ago
    Actually, announcements have since become less cliché - or from another perspective they are now based on a IMHO silly we-are-a-happy-company cliché (including GIFs).
muglug 13y ago
Isn't the point she's making that she didn't fit the culture primarily because of her gender? And that any work culture where one's gender matters is a toxic culture in itself? A workplace just filled with happy young male developers is not necessarily a healthy environment, or one that necessarily has a good culture.
- czzarr 13y ago
  Define good culture. Why would you assume to know what a good culture is? Why would a workplace filled with happy young males be necessarily a bad culture?
  - muglug 13y ago
    > Why would a workplace filled with happy young males be necessarily a bad culture? That's not what I said.
- tomp 13y ago
  > Isn't the point she's making that she didn't fit the culture primarily because of her gender? It is, but the point a lot of people are making here is that maybe she sees the situation in a wrong way, as her perspective is a reflection of her gender, so she cannot really judge if the problems happened primarily because of her gender. Actually, the fact that the other female employees felt secure and relaxed enough that they were hola-hooping in the office suggests otherwise. > A workplace just filled with happy young male developers is not necessarily a healthy environment, or one that necessarily has a good culture. It's also not necessarily an unhealthy/toxic environment.
  - muglug 13y ago
    > Actually, the fact that the other female employees felt secure and relaxed enough that they were hola-hooping in the office suggests otherwise. No it doesn't, really. There can still be a problem, even if it's easier to ignore it than to cause a fuss and risk your career. > It's also not necessarily an unhealthy/toxic environment Absolutely agree - but if, when you add a female developer, there is hostility towards her that appears to be motivated in part by her gender, then one should revise one's opinion of the "healthiness" of that environment. Obviously this is one person's account and, absent a response from GitHub, it will stay that way. Nevertheless, I'm sorry that she felt victimised, and I think her account is a useful vantage point from which to discuss issues of "cultural fit" in all-male teams.
  - efuquen 13y ago
bsder 13y ago
This bothered me the most: > Despite its generally female-friendly environment, Horvath claims: “I had a really hard time getting used to the culture, the aggressive communication on pull requests and how little the men I worked with respected and valued my opinion.” What? Um, you're the new hire. Demonstrating your worth is a standard phase that even men go through. If the pull request communication is too aggressive, tough. The company does not owe you a change of culture. Overall, the environment strikes me as not terribly friendly. Okay. That's a culture misfit. Big time. But why would you stay? Why would you recommend this to other women when you were having such a hard time yourself? Jesus, I won't recommend companies or people unless I've got a really clear idea that there is a really good fit. It's like being a personal matchmaker, there's not a lot of upside and there is a lot of downside.

r0muald 13y ago

Apparently they were as excited to have her onboard as with any other new hire at the time: https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubber https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubbe...

jessaustin 13y ago
What's the point? Presumably they make similar announcements for many new hires, although I have to wonder if those are illustrated by such pore-stretchingly enormous head photos.
- r0muald 13y ago
  Actually, announcements have since become less cliché - or from another perspective they are now based on a IMHO silly we-are-a-happy-company cliché (including GIFs).

muglug 13y ago

Isn't the point she's making that she didn't fit the culture primarily because of her gender? And that any work culture where one's gender matters is a toxic culture in itself? A workplace just filled with happy young male developers is not necessarily a healthy environment, or one that necessarily has a good culture.

czzarr 13y ago
Define good culture. Why would you assume to know what a good culture is? Why would a workplace filled with happy young males be necessarily a bad culture?
- muglug 13y ago
  > Why would a workplace filled with happy young males be necessarily a bad culture? That's not what I said.
tomp 13y ago
> Isn't the point she's making that she didn't fit the culture primarily because of her gender? It is, but the point a lot of people are making here is that maybe she sees the situation in a wrong way, as her perspective is a reflection of her gender, so she cannot really judge if the problems happened primarily because of her gender. Actually, the fact that the other female employees felt secure and relaxed enough that they were hola-hooping in the office suggests otherwise. > A workplace just filled with happy young male developers is not necessarily a healthy environment, or one that necessarily has a good culture. It's also not necessarily an unhealthy/toxic environment.
- muglug 13y ago
  > Actually, the fact that the other female employees felt secure and relaxed enough that they were hola-hooping in the office suggests otherwise. No it doesn't, really. There can still be a problem, even if it's easier to ignore it than to cause a fuss and risk your career. > It's also not necessarily an unhealthy/toxic environment Absolutely agree - but if, when you add a female developer, there is hostility towards her that appears to be motivated in part by her gender, then one should revise one's opinion of the "healthiness" of that environment. Obviously this is one person's account and, absent a response from GitHub, it will stay that way. Nevertheless, I'm sorry that she felt victimised, and I think her account is a useful vantage point from which to discuss issues of "cultural fit" in all-male teams.
- efuquen 13y ago

bsder 13y ago

This bothered me the most: > Despite its generally female-friendly environment, Horvath claims: “I had a really hard time getting used to the culture, the aggressive communication on pull requests and how little the men I worked with respected and valued my opinion.” What? Um, you're the new hire. Demonstrating your worth is a standard phase that even men go through. If the pull request communication is too aggressive, tough. The company does not owe you a change of culture. Overall, the environment strikes me as not terribly friendly. Okay. That's a culture misfit. Big time. But why would you stay? Why would you recommend this to other women when you were having such a hard time yourself? Jesus, I won't recommend companies or people unless I've got a really clear idea that there is a really good fit. It's like being a personal matchmaker, there's not a lot of upside and there is a lot of downside.