6 ms·

NATO websites hit in cyber attack over Crimea stance

24 points by testrun 13y ago

dcc1 13y ago
I suppose the Russians will be telling their people that the "West" did it themselves in order to make Russia look bad, just like the "Ukranian" unmarked fascist troops surrounded their own bases "for the laugh" and now want a part of their country annexed. Sigh
- vukmir 13y ago
  WTF?
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  Nope; they no longer give a shit about looking bad. This is scary.
- throwwit 13y ago
  Please don't bring politics into HN. Sigh P.S. You need read the article, "Lungescu noted the statement by "a group of hacktivists" but said that, due to the complexities involved in attributing the attacks, NATO would not speculate about who was responsible or their motives."
  - dcc1 13y ago
    Yes because there hasnt been any politically motivated cyber attacks on countries within the Russian "sphere of influence" in the past /sarcasm
    - throwwit 13y ago
      I understood your original comment. It raised two polarizing political hypotheticals based on childish cyber attacks, that even the attacked cannot speculate on. It's just a website.
TillE 13y ago
Has anyone noticed all the bizarrely pro-Putin comments on English language news sites over the past few weeks? I mean actually repeating Russian propaganda which is completely contrary to reality. The Guardian is flooded with this in every article on the subject. It's weird, and I'm sure some of it is an actual orchestrated propaganda effort, but I worry that a lot of it is just another instance of people being knee-jerk contrarians.
- mike_esspe 13y ago
  There was a well known pro-government astroturfing in Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades#Nashi_involvement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades#Nashi_involvement But it can be real people commenting at The Guardian. Brainwashing is very strong.
- csandreasen 13y ago
  I expect those kind of comments popping up on The Guardian. I was surprised when I saw an entire thread of them on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7404280 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7404280 (although maybe I shouldn't be surprised)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- dm2 13y ago
  Sock-puppet accounts are hard to prevent. If you employ an entire army to influence social media and news comments, it can be a powerful force. Unfortunately, the superpowers have been doing it for a while.
- romanovcode 13y ago
  Just don't forget that there is propaganda from both sides.
  - dm2 13y ago
    It has traditionally been illegal for the US to spread propaganda to US citizens: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-ope... But in 2013: http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_off_propaganda_ban_spreads_government_made_news_to_americans http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_... There should be a law that requires the US government to put a notice on anything that could be considered propaganda. Hopefully that would mean more transparency, which is a good thing.
morsch 13y ago
There are two sides two every story. The average HN reader is very likely to be in an echo chamber that by its own nature as well as by controlled intervention spins a view against the Russian position. As am I. Certain things feel so obvious to me and seemingly everyone else, I can't help being suspicious. Of course the same is true for the other side.
polack 13y ago
It would be nice if the US/EU sanctions against Soviet includes cutting them of the net. 99.99999% of everything thats comes over the wire from Russia is just crap anyway. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good Russians out there, but if you're a good Russian you don't stay in Russia.
rjzzleep 13y ago
before everyone comes out with their russia hate here's old leaks of emails from the udar party[1]. a lot of people predicted that meddling with ukraine would lead to another split state, and that is precisely what we see unfolding. it doesn't matter whether the west is right, or whether russia is right. the immense complacency that has grown in european, and us leadership with total disregard of russias interests is what brought the situation to the situation we have right now. when we do things it's justified. when others do them they're wrong. what puzzles me, is that we're supposed to be on hacker news. people that decompose, and extend other people's works on a day to day basis sit here, and comment how it's "obviously" wrong to think putin is right. wait what? normally there is a bunch of people criticizing lack of objectivity or critical thought, but when it comes to territorial right, and sexism there is only one way. and what others say is dismissed as propaganda. the group that made a political coup in the ukraine with the support of the west, to overthrow an elected leader - whether we like him or not is irrelevant -, directly, or indirectly(with money, threat of sanctions, threat of no economic cooperation), has now unanimously voted for creating a national guard to fight terrorists[2]. the terrorists? what? heres a map of crimea[4]. have you ever thought about geopolitics? did you really think russia would completely distance itself from the situation? we didn't. we kept fueling the conflict. what on earth makes you think we're entitled to more than russia? what on earth made you think that russia wouldn't take advantage of it's influence like we took on ours? according to a german politician the words the founder of the svoboda party were this: "Grab the guns, fight the Russian pigs, the Germans, the Jews pigs and others"(sadly, i am not entirely sure what the sources of his speech are, if you understand german you can listen to the speech here, he's been blasting both russia, AND the western leadership[3]). the leader of the anti government riots is now the Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine. his deputy is the right sector leader yarosh. I don't really care whether your think the current ukrainian government has legitimacy or not. that is your personal opinion, and may or may not be right. it's not really for me to judge. but completely disregarding the facts, and calling everyone that is not of your opinion a propagandatist or someone fed by russian propaganda is disgusting. is that really the level we are discussing things on? [1] http://pastebin.com/8mpTbTqY http://pastebin.com/8mpTbTqY [2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26558288 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26558288 [3] http://youtu.be/pXLy0NGW9sM http://youtu.be/pXLy0NGW9sM [4] http://mkalty.org/crimea/ http://mkalty.org/crimea/

24 points by testrun 13y ago

dcc1 13y ago

I suppose the Russians will be telling their people that the "West" did it themselves in order to make Russia look bad, just like the "Ukranian" unmarked fascist troops surrounded their own bases "for the laugh" and now want a part of their country annexed. Sigh

vukmir 13y ago
WTF?
guard-of-terra 13y ago
Nope; they no longer give a shit about looking bad. This is scary.
throwwit 13y ago
Please don't bring politics into HN. Sigh P.S. You need read the article, "Lungescu noted the statement by "a group of hacktivists" but said that, due to the complexities involved in attributing the attacks, NATO would not speculate about who was responsible or their motives."
- dcc1 13y ago
  Yes because there hasnt been any politically motivated cyber attacks on countries within the Russian "sphere of influence" in the past /sarcasm
  - throwwit 13y ago
    I understood your original comment. It raised two polarizing political hypotheticals based on childish cyber attacks, that even the attacked cannot speculate on. It's just a website.

TillE 13y ago

Has anyone noticed all the bizarrely pro-Putin comments on English language news sites over the past few weeks? I mean actually repeating Russian propaganda which is completely contrary to reality. The Guardian is flooded with this in every article on the subject. It's weird, and I'm sure some of it is an actual orchestrated propaganda effort, but I worry that a lot of it is just another instance of people being knee-jerk contrarians.

mike_esspe 13y ago
There was a well known pro-government astroturfing in Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades#Nashi_involvement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades#Nashi_involvement But it can be real people commenting at The Guardian. Brainwashing is very strong.
csandreasen 13y ago
I expect those kind of comments popping up on The Guardian. I was surprised when I saw an entire thread of them on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7404280 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7404280 (although maybe I shouldn't be surprised)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dm2 13y ago
Sock-puppet accounts are hard to prevent. If you employ an entire army to influence social media and news comments, it can be a powerful force. Unfortunately, the superpowers have been doing it for a while.
romanovcode 13y ago
Just don't forget that there is propaganda from both sides.
- dm2 13y ago
  It has traditionally been illegal for the US to spread propaganda to US citizens: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-ope... But in 2013: http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_off_propaganda_ban_spreads_government_made_news_to_americans http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_... There should be a law that requires the US government to put a notice on anything that could be considered propaganda. Hopefully that would mean more transparency, which is a good thing.

morsch 13y ago

There are two sides two every story. The average HN reader is very likely to be in an echo chamber that by its own nature as well as by controlled intervention spins a view against the Russian position. As am I. Certain things feel so obvious to me and seemingly everyone else, I can't help being suspicious. Of course the same is true for the other side.

polack 13y ago

It would be nice if the US/EU sanctions against Soviet includes cutting them of the net. 99.99999% of everything thats comes over the wire from Russia is just crap anyway. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good Russians out there, but if you're a good Russian you don't stay in Russia.

rjzzleep 13y ago

before everyone comes out with their russia hate here's old leaks of emails from the udar party[1]. a lot of people predicted that meddling with ukraine would lead to another split state, and that is precisely what we see unfolding. it doesn't matter whether the west is right, or whether russia is right. the immense complacency that has grown in european, and us leadership with total disregard of russias interests is what brought the situation to the situation we have right now. when we do things it's justified. when others do them they're wrong. what puzzles me, is that we're supposed to be on hacker news. people that decompose, and extend other people's works on a day to day basis sit here, and comment how it's "obviously" wrong to think putin is right. wait what? normally there is a bunch of people criticizing lack of objectivity or critical thought, but when it comes to territorial right, and sexism there is only one way. and what others say is dismissed as propaganda. the group that made a political coup in the ukraine with the support of the west, to overthrow an elected leader - whether we like him or not is irrelevant -, directly, or indirectly(with money, threat of sanctions, threat of no economic cooperation), has now unanimously voted for creating a national guard to fight terrorists[2]. the terrorists? what? heres a map of crimea[4]. have you ever thought about geopolitics? did you really think russia would completely distance itself from the situation? we didn't. we kept fueling the conflict. what on earth makes you think we're entitled to more than russia? what on earth made you think that russia wouldn't take advantage of it's influence like we took on ours? according to a german politician the words the founder of the svoboda party were this: "Grab the guns, fight the Russian pigs, the Germans, the Jews pigs and others"(sadly, i am not entirely sure what the sources of his speech are, if you understand german you can listen to the speech here, he's been blasting both russia, AND the western leadership[3]). the leader of the anti government riots is now the Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine. his deputy is the right sector leader yarosh. I don't really care whether your think the current ukrainian government has legitimacy or not. that is your personal opinion, and may or may not be right. it's not really for me to judge. but completely disregarding the facts, and calling everyone that is not of your opinion a propagandatist or someone fed by russian propaganda is disgusting. is that really the level we are discussing things on? [1] http://pastebin.com/8mpTbTqY http://pastebin.com/8mpTbTqY [2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26558288 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26558288 [3] http://youtu.be/pXLy0NGW9sM http://youtu.be/pXLy0NGW9sM [4] http://mkalty.org/crimea/ http://mkalty.org/crimea/