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The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a p

The article quotes JAH's email as saying, "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to male coworkers, they didn’t see a problem with it. But for me it felt unsafe and to be honest, really embarrassing. That was the moment I decided to finally leave GitHub." Certain people are extremely sensitive to what they perceive as improper or demeaning interaction, even when it doesn't directly involve them. JAH wasn't willing to let those women deal with it themselves, and doesn't mention even talking to them about it to see if they felt objectified. Instead, she talked to male coworkers, not specifically HR or a founder, about the wisdom of allowing women to hula hoop in the office? What's that going to accomplish? I understand her view that sexual undercurrents in an office makes things uncomfortable for some women, and I understand her wanting that toned down. But other women (including some feminists) have no problem with much stronger displays of sexuality, and feel it's an affront to women to suppress that. Both sides can't win.

unreal37 13y ago
If someone were to hula-hoop to music in my office, male or female, I am pretty sure there would be a lot of people looking on. Not sure where the line of "looking on" and "gawking" is in that situation.
- noir_lord 13y ago
  If both are straight and male looking on. If both are gay and male looking on. If both are straight and female looking on. If both are straight and male is hoola hooping with female watching looking on. If both are straight and female is hoola hooping with male looking on gawking. Is this not obvious, We are all uncontrollable messes of hormones and the self-control of a 15 year old boy apparently. If I was at work and women where hoola hooping I'd just go get on with my work (but then I hate goofing off at work, work is work).
  - lotsofmangos 13y ago
    I'd probably ask for a go on the hula-hoop.
  - kyberias 13y ago
    What is wrong with this culture of suppressing even the most basic sexual ideas to the point of closing eyes when a female starts to hola hoop. This is crazy!
- rmrfrmrf 13y ago
  That's why I feel like they should just not allow hula-hooping in the office. As someone who has been to both gay and straight clubs, I know that "grown-ups hula hooping" is a lot less like innocent fun and more like rapid pelvic thrusting with a hoop thrown in. The problem is that a "no hula-hooping" rule sounds ridiculous, and really even splitting hairs on the topic itself seems tedious. Instead, any disruptive behavior should be off-limits and it should be up to the managers to enforce the rules. There are "fun police" at your place of employment for a reason, because honestly this whole situation could have been avoided if the hula-hoopers had kept their hobbies at home.
facepalm 13y ago
I think it's really a huge stretch to go from oogling of hula hoopers to "feeling unsafe". What, after watching some women do hoola hoop men suddenly turn into rapists? That's 100% in her head and sounds slightly crazy to me, to be honest. Not even going to strip clubs turns men into rapists on a regular basis... I think that accusation is completely unwarranted (from the sounds of it).
- dclowd9901 13y ago
  After reading the article, it became pretty clear to me that whatever manner of "culture" github appears to be permeating internally, she was very far from it. This indicates she was a bad hire from the get-go. Hiring isn't just about talent, it's also about cultural fit, and while it's difficult to know with precision who fits a cultural dynamic, 1) such an issue is bound to arise as a company grows and 2) there had to be indications that she was incredibly sensitive early on.
  - r0muald 13y ago
    Apparently they were as excited to have her onboard as with any other new hire at the time: https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubber https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubbe...
    - jessaustin 13y ago
      What's the point? Presumably they make similar announcements for many new hires, although I have to wonder if those are illustrated by such pore-stretchingly enormous head photos.
      - r0muald 13y ago
        Actually, announcements have since become less cliché - or from another perspective they are now based on a IMHO silly we-are-a-happy-company cliché (including GIFs).
  - muglug 13y ago
foz 13y ago
The hula hooping event simply took on a symbolic meaning for her, give what she went through. I don't think the act itself was dangerous or so terrible, but through her eyes, at that moment, it was the last straw.
- grifpete 13y ago
  Exactly right. (see my comment on this very point)
snowwrestler 13y ago
I think you have to consider the story as a whole. If everything else was great, I'd agree with you that getting upset at this little scene might be over-sensitivity. But from the author's perspective, everything else was not great. Far from it.
grifpete 13y ago
My observation is that it is very easy to misunderstand stories like the hoola hoop example. Imagine 2 scenarios: a) a company where we stipulate that there is no sexism and women feel respected and valued b) a company where to stipulate that there is widespread sexism and women detect a myriad of signs of it every day. In scenario a) the hoola hoop incident is highly unlikely to spark a reaction from a woman but in scenario b) this may be offensive to her. The problem for the woman in b) is that it isn't really the hoola hoop 'leering'that offends her so much as it is the culmination of a series of attitudes and slights. But of course, if she complains about the hoola hoop behavior she can easily look petty. Each such incident can seem trivial but the pattern isn't. It is a real dilemma for women how to handle this kind of atmosphere gracefully and it is probably impossible for them to do so without some men tarring them as being nutty oversensitive rad fems.
- stoptalkingshit 13y ago
  And yet there is no evidence in this article that the company us unfriendly to women - just rambling about her "feelings".

unreal37 13y ago

If someone were to hula-hoop to music in my office, male or female, I am pretty sure there would be a lot of people looking on. Not sure where the line of "looking on" and "gawking" is in that situation.

noir_lord 13y ago
If both are straight and male looking on. If both are gay and male looking on. If both are straight and female looking on. If both are straight and male is hoola hooping with female watching looking on. If both are straight and female is hoola hooping with male looking on gawking. Is this not obvious, We are all uncontrollable messes of hormones and the self-control of a 15 year old boy apparently. If I was at work and women where hoola hooping I'd just go get on with my work (but then I hate goofing off at work, work is work).
- lotsofmangos 13y ago
  I'd probably ask for a go on the hula-hoop.
- kyberias 13y ago
  What is wrong with this culture of suppressing even the most basic sexual ideas to the point of closing eyes when a female starts to hola hoop. This is crazy!
rmrfrmrf 13y ago
That's why I feel like they should just not allow hula-hooping in the office. As someone who has been to both gay and straight clubs, I know that "grown-ups hula hooping" is a lot less like innocent fun and more like rapid pelvic thrusting with a hoop thrown in. The problem is that a "no hula-hooping" rule sounds ridiculous, and really even splitting hairs on the topic itself seems tedious. Instead, any disruptive behavior should be off-limits and it should be up to the managers to enforce the rules. There are "fun police" at your place of employment for a reason, because honestly this whole situation could have been avoided if the hula-hoopers had kept their hobbies at home.

facepalm 13y ago

I think it's really a huge stretch to go from oogling of hula hoopers to "feeling unsafe". What, after watching some women do hoola hoop men suddenly turn into rapists? That's 100% in her head and sounds slightly crazy to me, to be honest. Not even going to strip clubs turns men into rapists on a regular basis... I think that accusation is completely unwarranted (from the sounds of it).

dclowd9901 13y ago
After reading the article, it became pretty clear to me that whatever manner of "culture" github appears to be permeating internally, she was very far from it. This indicates she was a bad hire from the get-go. Hiring isn't just about talent, it's also about cultural fit, and while it's difficult to know with precision who fits a cultural dynamic, 1) such an issue is bound to arise as a company grows and 2) there had to be indications that she was incredibly sensitive early on.
- r0muald 13y ago
  Apparently they were as excited to have her onboard as with any other new hire at the time: https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubber https://github.com/blog/1082-julie-ann-horvath-is-a-githubbe...
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    What's the point? Presumably they make similar announcements for many new hires, although I have to wonder if those are illustrated by such pore-stretchingly enormous head photos.
    - r0muald 13y ago
      Actually, announcements have since become less cliché - or from another perspective they are now based on a IMHO silly we-are-a-happy-company cliché (including GIFs).
- muglug 13y ago

foz 13y ago

The hula hooping event simply took on a symbolic meaning for her, give what she went through. I don't think the act itself was dangerous or so terrible, but through her eyes, at that moment, it was the last straw.

grifpete 13y ago
Exactly right. (see my comment on this very point)

snowwrestler 13y ago

I think you have to consider the story as a whole. If everything else was great, I'd agree with you that getting upset at this little scene might be over-sensitivity. But from the author's perspective, everything else was not great. Far from it.

grifpete 13y ago

My observation is that it is very easy to misunderstand stories like the hoola hoop example. Imagine 2 scenarios: a) a company where we stipulate that there is no sexism and women feel respected and valued b) a company where to stipulate that there is widespread sexism and women detect a myriad of signs of it every day. In scenario a) the hoola hoop incident is highly unlikely to spark a reaction from a woman but in scenario b) this may be offensive to her. The problem for the woman in b) is that it isn't really the hoola hoop 'leering'that offends her so much as it is the culmination of a series of attitudes and slights. But of course, if she complains about the hoola hoop behavior she can easily look petty. Each such incident can seem trivial but the pattern isn't. It is a real dilemma for women how to handle this kind of atmosphere gracefully and it is probably impossible for them to do so without some men tarring them as being nutty oversensitive rad fems.

stoptalkingshit 13y ago
And yet there is no evidence in this article that the company us unfriendly to women - just rambling about her "feelings".