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I don't think it creates a 'hostile' atmosphere per say. Obviously if both parties are alight with the situation then it's fine for them. I think it's an inapp

I don't think it creates a 'hostile' atmosphere per say. Obviously if both parties are alight with the situation then it's fine for them. I think it's an inappropriate one for a workplace though. This comes down to company culture. The problem isn't the women hula hooping, a casual environment means such things will happen. People will exercise together, work on hobbies, etc. The problem is that in a work environment everyone who works there has to be treated with respect, and equally, and that means not cat-calling your co-workers. Even if the women were fine with it (and they probably were since they didn't stop), the large group of men treating them like sexual objects in the workplace is not conducive to an environment where women are respected. If this was a strip club there wouldn't be a problem. To draw a parallel, if 7 out of 10 people at the office were having nerf gun fights, and it was disrupting other peoples work (because they are reflexively duck, etc) to the point where they can't work when there aren’t big nerf gun fights (but still one or two shots every now and then), then it's a problem, and destructive to a good work environment. This is where management needs to step in and say, "ok guys, I know we are pretty lax around here, but seriously cut this shit out". Obviously it isn't a perfect parallel. It's also a culture fit thing. This was the thing that broke the camels back. This employee suffered discrimination from executives (and startup founder's significant others are likely going to be part of the executive team one way or another. They certainly have the standing of the executive team in many ways. Legally speaking they are almost the same 'person' in many ways), she suffered discrimination from a single employee, and then she suffered it from a group of employees (a group mentality). And all three of these things feed into each other, and in a work environment (especially a casual one), employees need to be able to move their bodies without worrying about a group of other employees demeaning them.

hueving 13y ago
>and that means not cat-calling your co-workers. There was no cat-calling in this case, so why bring that up? I suppose you could mention also that it's not okay to rape your co-workers too. Kinda disingenuous though, isn't it? Bringing it up in the context of this story implies that it happened.
- SolarNet 13y ago
  My mistake (noticed when I went back to quote the article), I misread: > What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them as > What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing them, hollering and gawking at them But the point remains. Although it's a bit less in severity than I first realized.
philwelch 13y ago
> To draw a parallel, if 7 out of 10 people at the office were having nerf gun fights, and it was disrupting other peoples work (because they are reflexively duck, etc) to the point where they can't work when there aren’t big nerf gun fights (but still one or two shots every now and then), then it's a problem, and destructive to a good work environment. This is where management needs to step in and say, "ok guys, I know we are pretty lax around here, but seriously cut this shit out". Obviously it isn't a perfect parallel. If 7 out of 10 people at the office are having an epic nerf gun fight, who's to say the three outliers are in the right? I'm not sure what you're trying to illustrate with this analogy.
- SolarNet 13y ago
  Well I was using it as more of a 30 out of a 100 outliers. I'm saying (and this is where the parallel breaks down a little) that if people want to have an epic nerf gun fight it should probably be scheduled, and out of the work place/time (like during launch, or after 5pm or something. And this is where it breaks down. Nerf gun fights are fine, but creating an environment that discriminates or (equivalently) encourages discrimination is never ok). They both distract many of the employees trying to work (i.e. the ones not involved in the discrimination/nerf gun fights), and it being able to break out randomly at any time is a massive continual distraction. To continue the analogy. Consider an employee is doing their own thing to relax (as opposed to nerf gun fights), perhaps they aren’t quite a company culture fit (since they don't like nerf guns) and they choose to do some hoola hooping, but almost every time they go to do that, they get pelted with crossfire from nerf guns, making it difficult to do their own relaxing thing. Now the other side (with the github environment with hola hooping women): Consider an employee is doing their own thing to relax (as opposed to hoola hooping), perhaps they aren’t quite a company culture fit (since they aren't interested in women. And for that matter, are a woman) and they choose to do some yoga, but almost every time they go to do that, a bunch of guys start gawking at them, making it difficult to do their own relaxing thing.

hueving 13y ago

>and that means not cat-calling your co-workers. There was no cat-calling in this case, so why bring that up? I suppose you could mention also that it's not okay to rape your co-workers too. Kinda disingenuous though, isn't it? Bringing it up in the context of this story implies that it happened.

SolarNet 13y ago
My mistake (noticed when I went back to quote the article), I misread: > What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them as > What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing them, hollering and gawking at them But the point remains. Although it's a bit less in severity than I first realized.

philwelch 13y ago

> To draw a parallel, if 7 out of 10 people at the office were having nerf gun fights, and it was disrupting other peoples work (because they are reflexively duck, etc) to the point where they can't work when there aren’t big nerf gun fights (but still one or two shots every now and then), then it's a problem, and destructive to a good work environment. This is where management needs to step in and say, "ok guys, I know we are pretty lax around here, but seriously cut this shit out". Obviously it isn't a perfect parallel. If 7 out of 10 people at the office are having an epic nerf gun fight, who's to say the three outliers are in the right? I'm not sure what you're trying to illustrate with this analogy.

SolarNet 13y ago
Well I was using it as more of a 30 out of a 100 outliers. I'm saying (and this is where the parallel breaks down a little) that if people want to have an epic nerf gun fight it should probably be scheduled, and out of the work place/time (like during launch, or after 5pm or something. And this is where it breaks down. Nerf gun fights are fine, but creating an environment that discriminates or (equivalently) encourages discrimination is never ok). They both distract many of the employees trying to work (i.e. the ones not involved in the discrimination/nerf gun fights), and it being able to break out randomly at any time is a massive continual distraction. To continue the analogy. Consider an employee is doing their own thing to relax (as opposed to nerf gun fights), perhaps they aren’t quite a company culture fit (since they don't like nerf guns) and they choose to do some hoola hooping, but almost every time they go to do that, they get pelted with crossfire from nerf guns, making it difficult to do their own relaxing thing. Now the other side (with the github environment with hola hooping women): Consider an employee is doing their own thing to relax (as opposed to hoola hooping), perhaps they aren’t quite a company culture fit (since they aren't interested in women. And for that matter, are a woman) and they choose to do some yoga, but almost every time they go to do that, a bunch of guys start gawking at them, making it difficult to do their own relaxing thing.