6 ms·

I don't see how this is AirBnB's fault, at least to the degree that's implied. You rented out your apartment to a stranger on the internet based upon what othe

by ZoF 13y ago

I don't see how this is AirBnB's fault, at least to the degree that's implied. You rented out your apartment to a stranger on the internet based upon what other strangers on the internet said about them. You almost certainly broke the terms of the lease in the process and probably deserved to be kicked out even if you hadn't had an "XXX freak fest" thrown. Sure, AirBnB should try and figure out the damages, charge the accounts credit card(guarantee that won't work) and the pursue damages(good luck). This is why people have renter's insurance(doubt you thought of it as you were probably trying to do this illegally anyway). This is also why this industry is regulated, because when it's not humans get pwnt by their own stupidity combined with the malice of other humans. At the end of the day for a lot of people AirBnB is a way to make easy money under the table, that's why there's little to no regulation; yeah that regulation comes with taxes/overhead, but it also comes with protection from the hazards of the business. It's pretty fucked logic to take such a huge risk with your property, give it zero protection, and then be not only surprised, but furious(with the site connecting you to the offender not the offender themself), when shit goes down. How dense can you be. TL;DR- AirBnB pays for these situations anyway[0], this drama post is made by someone who took a huge risk in renting an apt without insurance, without a face-to-face, and probably not in accordance with his/her lease. The post will probably result in a faster payout, but the entitlement is slightly annoying considering the circumstances. [0]-https://www.airbnb.com/guarantee https://www.airbnb.com/guarantee

Kequc 13y ago
There are absolutely tons of people more dense than the OP, tons. Vast parades of dense people. So it's a little bit unwarranted to really come down this hard on him. On the other hand it is these vast parades of dense people who keep voting for less regulation as a whole. So I can appreciate the need to come down hard on them. But this guy doesn't seem like the guy honestly. AirBNB is a business model used by millions, they take a huge or even really huge cut just for being the middle man. You expect a tiered amount of "XXX Freak Fests" rolling through your apartment.
- clarky07 13y ago
  Tell me how regulation solves this? Why is it that this couldn't happen in a hotel? (Guarantee it does all the time) There isn't any regulation that can fix people being jackasses. This isn't AirBNB's fault, and it isn't the OP's fault. It's the jackass who held the party fault. Could the OP have done things differently? Sure. It's likely the sublet wasn't entirely legal, and it's likely he could have renter's insurance. That being said, his insurance still probably shouldn't have to pay it. That is what AirBNB's cut should be covering. And I'm sure they will in fact cover it, as this is really bad publicity for them. The only reason for this post is to make that money get there faster.
  - ubernostrum 13y ago
    The point of regulations is not always to prevent a bad thing from happening; the point is that when the bad thing does happen, it can be contained/handled more effectively, or that there are established and well-understood procedures for recovering from it. Regulations which say that hotels should be hotels and apartments should not be hotels are as much about containing the effects of bad actors as anything else.
  - demallien 13y ago
    1) hotels don't use keys. The dodgy hotel guest can be shut out with the stroke of a key at the reception desk computer. 2) when things go wrong, hotels have staff on hand to deal with the situation. 3) hotels have insurance for when things go badly wrong. All of these things cost money, which is partly why hotels are more expensive than AirBnB. The author assumed a lot of risk when subletting through AirBnB and is now complaining when the risk went wrong. I have very little sympathy for him / her. The people I do have sympathy for are fellow residents of the apartment block, who had a reasonable expectation that their building wouldn't be turned into the site of a free for all sex party. They didnt get any say in this, and didn't receive any compensation. That is unfair.
    - ZoF 13y ago
      Exactly. The reason this vertical hasn't been disrupted in this manner is the inherent liability of dealing with humans. An institution like a hotel chain can both: -React to a situation like this immediately instead of letting it play out. -Take the losses in the event that damage occurs and the guests credentials were fake. ------------------------------------------------ To an individual renting out less than 5 properties a loss like this is crippling. Also agree that the real victims here are the fellow tenants +landlord, they won't be seeing any of that 90k+ or their shitty past tenant.
tptacek 13y ago
You expect renters insurance to pay out claims when you rent your apartment out to strangers on Airbnb? You must have excellent insurance.
- ZoF 13y ago
  Hmm, I meant that in the context of a legitimate sublease, although the second half of that sentence does strongly imply I was referring to this stay as a valid use case. You'd get liability coverage from some plans at least. Honestly, I think in the revision process I moved a sentence fragment astray.
- qq66 13y ago
  You can buy insurance for absolutely anything you can think up (Mir space station hitting a target in the middle of the ocean). Of course it wouldn't be economical to build a custom insurance product for a one-night stay in an AirBnB, but the use case is general enough to probably justify an insurance product.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    You are naive if you think an insurer is going to pay out for damages resulting from the formation of an illegal contract (between renter and subletter in this case), which is automatically void.
    - ZoF 13y ago
      He never so much as implied that he was talking about this specific instance.
      - anigbrowl 13y ago
        Doesn't matter. Even if such a general product existed it would be easy for an insurer to decline payout in an instance such as this. I'm guessing AirBNB will be reluctant to pay out here for similar reasons, unless it emerges that the party organized have a history of this sort of thing and AirBNB knew about prior complaints at the time they brokered the booking.

by ZoF 13y ago

Kequc 13y ago

There are absolutely tons of people more dense than the OP, tons. Vast parades of dense people. So it's a little bit unwarranted to really come down this hard on him. On the other hand it is these vast parades of dense people who keep voting for less regulation as a whole. So I can appreciate the need to come down hard on them. But this guy doesn't seem like the guy honestly. AirBNB is a business model used by millions, they take a huge or even really huge cut just for being the middle man. You expect a tiered amount of "XXX Freak Fests" rolling through your apartment.

clarky07 13y ago
Tell me how regulation solves this? Why is it that this couldn't happen in a hotel? (Guarantee it does all the time) There isn't any regulation that can fix people being jackasses. This isn't AirBNB's fault, and it isn't the OP's fault. It's the jackass who held the party fault. Could the OP have done things differently? Sure. It's likely the sublet wasn't entirely legal, and it's likely he could have renter's insurance. That being said, his insurance still probably shouldn't have to pay it. That is what AirBNB's cut should be covering. And I'm sure they will in fact cover it, as this is really bad publicity for them. The only reason for this post is to make that money get there faster.
- ubernostrum 13y ago
  The point of regulations is not always to prevent a bad thing from happening; the point is that when the bad thing does happen, it can be contained/handled more effectively, or that there are established and well-understood procedures for recovering from it. Regulations which say that hotels should be hotels and apartments should not be hotels are as much about containing the effects of bad actors as anything else.
- demallien 13y ago
  1) hotels don't use keys. The dodgy hotel guest can be shut out with the stroke of a key at the reception desk computer. 2) when things go wrong, hotels have staff on hand to deal with the situation. 3) hotels have insurance for when things go badly wrong. All of these things cost money, which is partly why hotels are more expensive than AirBnB. The author assumed a lot of risk when subletting through AirBnB and is now complaining when the risk went wrong. I have very little sympathy for him / her. The people I do have sympathy for are fellow residents of the apartment block, who had a reasonable expectation that their building wouldn't be turned into the site of a free for all sex party. They didnt get any say in this, and didn't receive any compensation. That is unfair.
  - ZoF 13y ago
    Exactly. The reason this vertical hasn't been disrupted in this manner is the inherent liability of dealing with humans. An institution like a hotel chain can both: -React to a situation like this immediately instead of letting it play out. -Take the losses in the event that damage occurs and the guests credentials were fake. ------------------------------------------------ To an individual renting out less than 5 properties a loss like this is crippling. Also agree that the real victims here are the fellow tenants +landlord, they won't be seeing any of that 90k+ or their shitty past tenant.

tptacek 13y ago

You expect renters insurance to pay out claims when you rent your apartment out to strangers on Airbnb? You must have excellent insurance.

ZoF 13y ago
Hmm, I meant that in the context of a legitimate sublease, although the second half of that sentence does strongly imply I was referring to this stay as a valid use case. You'd get liability coverage from some plans at least. Honestly, I think in the revision process I moved a sentence fragment astray.
qq66 13y ago
You can buy insurance for absolutely anything you can think up (Mir space station hitting a target in the middle of the ocean). Of course it wouldn't be economical to build a custom insurance product for a one-night stay in an AirBnB, but the use case is general enough to probably justify an insurance product.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  You are naive if you think an insurer is going to pay out for damages resulting from the formation of an illegal contract (between renter and subletter in this case), which is automatically void.
  - ZoF 13y ago
    He never so much as implied that he was talking about this specific instance.
    - anigbrowl 13y ago
      Doesn't matter. Even if such a general product existed it would be easy for an insurer to decline payout in an instance such as this. I'm guessing AirBNB will be reluctant to pay out here for similar reasons, unless it emerges that the party organized have a history of this sort of thing and AirBNB knew about prior complaints at the time they brokered the booking.